Drafting....A question arose yesterday. (Page 2)

This x100.  Avoiding drafting, position, and blocking penalties isn't that hard.  In the local sprint, I have more sympathy, because there are a lot more beginners who are still learning the rules, but if you're racing long course, it's not too much to expect you to understand the rules and follow them.

LOL - yeah, they're horrible.  It's better to whine about something you have no control over. I especially like all the tough talk of spitting, snotting, peeing etc on people......funny how I've never seen that in 30 years either.   All this thread is missing is the droves of people who have apparently been knocked out of a podium finish because of drafting.

ETA - after giving this more thought, if I ever get drafted on I'm hoping it's an out and back course.  I will clothesline the bastage when he/she runs by, then I will whip out my johnson and pee on them, then I'mma jump up and come down with the atomic elbow drop.  Then I'll rip off their bib and when I'm done I will write DRAFTER on it with a sharpie and post it in the town square. I'm down ya'll......let's roll on these suckers!!

I only read half of this thread so sorry if I am taking things off course, but I have wondered about drafting on busy race courses where you have hundreds of people finishing within minutes of each other.  

There obviously isn't enough space on the course for them all to be 6 bike lengths apart so what you end up with are 2-3 bike lanes formed with slower riders in the inside lane being passed by a steady flow of people in the 2nd lane and faster people passing people two wide into lane three.  My race two weeks ago had something like 2000 participants and all through out the bike course I was seeing people passing up to 5 bikes wide.  Even though people were not locked on to the back wheel of a single rider and parking there "for a free ride" they were constantly passing people which means they were constantly in a draft zone of someone on the inside.  If you are in lane two steadily passing a line of bikes on the inside you are always in the 6 bike lengths of someone even though it is 10-15 different people over a single mile.  So do you get any draft benefit on busy race courses when constantly passing a line of slower riders, or do you have to be going the same speed as the person in front of you to catch the draft?

In a race with that many people finishing with times that are really close together does it really matter if you have someone less than 6 bike spaces behind you when they are just trying to get out of the way of the four people wide and are weaving in and out to pass them?   Things got bottle necked quite a few times when faster rider had a hard time finding passing lanes.  I passed over the yellow line 2-3 times to pass people and know other say they had to do the same.  In training I know I am not drafting because I am the only one of the road.  In races there are so many people I can't comprehend worrying about anyone being in your draft zone when a dozen times during the race I was passing two people wide on the inside while people were passing me two people wide on the outside.    

There are certainly more than a few folks that fall into this category.  At the pre-race meeting, drafting is just one of many rules warned against that may not register with a first timer.  In my last sprint, I had one such person latch onto my wheel on a gradual descent so we were going 30+ mph and I didn't care so much about him getting a free ride but that he would nip my back wheel sending us both to the emergency room.  I motioned a few times to back off but he was oblivious.  I ended up spraying my water bottle over my shoulder and that caught his attention.

On the other end, I got a drafting penalty at my last IM.  I have no idea where or how it happened.  Just saw a four minute penalty in the results.  I'm usually pretty careful to follow the rules so am still at a loss.  Maybe a case of mistaken record keeping.  Whatever. 

In those situations where there are people passing people, who are passing people, who are passing people, etc, it's unlikely that you're in the draft zone of anyone other than the person you're passing, unless they're drafting directly behind someone else.  The draft zone is only 2 meters wide (1 meter from the center of their bike), so you're farther than that from the riders to the right of the rider you're passing.  Even on a crowded course, it's still possible to ride by the rules.  It's more challenging, but not impossible.

About your other question, yes, there's a benefit to passing groups of people who are slower than you.  A good technique is to ride straight up behind them until you're within a few feet, then swing out to the left to "slingshot" the pass to gain the maximum benefit.

ETA:  Here's a nice explanation of the draft zones with some good illustrations.

Originally posted by 3mar But here's the thing. In that race *cough* 23.4 mph *cough* that was a couple weeks ago *cough* 3rd place overall *cough* during the bike leg the guy who ended up fourth overall (you know, one place behind me, since I was in 3rd) and I exchanged places about 5 times. We were both around the same speed *cough* 23.4 mph *cough* and were constantly going back and forth. When I passed him, I never looked to see if he was on my wheel. It just wasn't worth it to look honestly. You're compromising your aero position and taking your eyes off the road to look behind you. I honestly don't think he was, but I have no idea. Conversely, he never looked back when he would overtake me. We both just rode. He ended up in transition ahead of me, but I transitioned faster and we ran together for the first three miles then I went ahead...because, I came in third and he came in fourth. Not bragging but you know...

Cheater!