80/20 rule (Page 2)
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2016-06-17 11:03 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Expert 4624 Middle River, Maryland | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by mchadcota2 I've never found the hard/easy or 80/20 to be feasible while using a trainerroad plan. On the trainerroad plan, you typically bike VERY hard on tues/thur/sat. Monday is usually my off day. So one of these days I try to get a good quality/hard run day in. I find it hard to do it on Wednesday because it makes Thursday's bike workout difficult to finish. So that leaves Friday and Sunday, which sunday is usually a longer run. Typically its not recommended to do your longer run at high intensity. So that leaves Friday, which is typically the day I try to fit it in. So that means, Thursday high intensity bike, Friday high intensity run, Saturday moderate to hard intensity bike, sunday long run. There is no room for an easy day in that span. So Wednesday and Monday are the only "easy days". Also, I've always read that you should be rested up for your quality/hard run workout. Which I take to mean you need an easy day before you take on your quality run. Which again, doesn't seem possible if you are biking hard 3 days/week. Where do you fit in your quality run workout? Do you have an easy day before? My Oly plan (non-recovery week) schedule looked like this: Monday: 6 AM bike - the easiest of the workouts (probably sweet spot) then a quick run, afternoon evening swim Tuesday: 6 AM quality run, afternoon swim Wednesday: 6 AM bike (most intense), afternoon EZ run Thursday: 6 AM yoga, afternoon optional bike or run Friday: 6 AM Masters swimming then short run home, afternoon bike (longest one) Saturday: short bike, followed by long run followed by short swim cool down (about 2 hours total) Sunday: off day or makeup I also did some strength training sessions. All of the runs other than Tuesday were at an easy pace. So, I'd go into the week fresh on Monday and Monday is a medium-intensity day, so my Tuesday morning runs were really effective. I would occasionally run a road race on Saturdays, but those were mostly at the end of recovery weeks.
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2016-06-17 11:08 AM in reply to: jmhpsu93 |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by mchadcota2 I've never found the hard/easy or 80/20 to be feasible while using a trainerroad plan. On the trainerroad plan, you typically bike VERY hard on tues/thur/sat. Monday is usually my off day. So one of these days I try to get a good quality/hard run day in. I find it hard to do it on Wednesday because it makes Thursday's bike workout difficult to finish. So that leaves Friday and Sunday, which sunday is usually a longer run. Typically its not recommended to do your longer run at high intensity. So that leaves Friday, which is typically the day I try to fit it in. So that means, Thursday high intensity bike, Friday high intensity run, Saturday moderate to hard intensity bike, sunday long run. There is no room for an easy day in that span. So Wednesday and Monday are the only "easy days". Also, I've always read that you should be rested up for your quality/hard run workout. Which I take to mean you need an easy day before you take on your quality run. Which again, doesn't seem possible if you are biking hard 3 days/week. Where do you fit in your quality run workout? Do you have an easy day before? My Oly plan (non-recovery week) schedule looked like this: Monday: 6 AM bike - the easiest of the workouts (probably sweet spot) then a quick run, afternoon evening swim Tuesday: 6 AM quality run, afternoon swim Wednesday: 6 AM bike (most intense), afternoon EZ run Thursday: 6 AM yoga, afternoon optional bike or run Friday: 6 AM Masters swimming then short run home, afternoon bike (longest one) Saturday: short bike, followed by long run followed by short swim cool down (about 2 hours total) Sunday: off day or makeup I also did some strength training sessions. All of the runs other than Tuesday were at an easy pace. So, I'd go into the week fresh on Monday and Monday is a medium-intensity day, so my Tuesday morning runs were really effective. I would occasionally run a road race on Saturdays, but those were mostly at the end of recovery weeks.
So you got by with only 1 hard bike per week. Were you able to make improvements on the bike with that? |
2016-06-17 11:21 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Expert 4624 Middle River, Maryland | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by mchadcota2 So you got by with only 1 hard bike per week. Were you able to make improvements on the bike with that? All three of those sessions were hard-ish, some harder than others, depending on the week. Nothing like 90' Z2 or anything except when I got outside and went for a couple of longer rides, but even those had plenty of hard work in them. And I'll admit my biking took a bit of a hit with this plan as it was pretty run-focused. You gotta make some concessions somewhere. There were some weeks I was really struggling, in which case I dialed down the intensity a little where I needed to. |
2016-06-17 11:29 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by mchadcota2 On the trainerroad plan, you typically bike VERY hard on tues/thur/sat. Can you give an example of a week ? What is the duration and TSS of each workout ? |
2016-06-17 11:40 AM in reply to: marcag |
Expert 4624 Middle River, Maryland | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by mchadcota2 On the trainerroad plan, you typically bike VERY hard on tues/thur/sat. Can you give an example of a week ? What is the duration and TSS of each workout ? Here's are 5 weeks of the recently-released 8-week Oly plan (note that there are precursors to this that prepare you for this work):
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2016-06-17 12:41 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by jmhpsu93 Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by mchadcota2 On the trainerroad plan, you typically bike VERY hard on tues/thur/sat. Can you give an example of a week ? What is the duration and TSS of each workout ? Here's are 5 weeks of the recently-released 8-week Oly plan (note that there are precursors to this that prepare you for this work):
Ya, 2/3 of those workouts don't fit in the model Seiler is discussing. As a matter of fact they fall into the Black hole he mentions. (Assuming that line across is threshold) Edited by marcag 2016-06-17 12:42 PM |
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2016-06-17 5:09 PM in reply to: marcag |
439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule A typical week would look like this. Tues: 1:15, TSS 102, thur: 1:15, tss 96, sat: 1:30 tss 121 |
2016-06-17 6:37 PM in reply to: marcag |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule I think a lot of stock or stock-ish bike focused (whether for just plain cycling or for tri) spend far too much time in either in the dead zone or the too hard zone. The Trainer Road tri plans, IMO, are way too hard from workout to workout with negative downstream consequences on future bike and run workouts. They will work for many/most over the short term (which could be 2-3 years) but it will take an eventual toll. Same with stuff like EN. Their bike workouts are just too hard for the long term. The whole point of polarization is to keep most of the workouts easy so you can really destroy the hard workouts. You don't need to destroy every workout. People would be surprised by how effective one killer workout in each discipline is per week while easing up on the other workouts. |
2016-06-17 7:47 PM in reply to: GMAN 19030 |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: 80/20 rule Originally posted by GMAN 19030 I think a lot of stock or stock-ish bike focused (whether for just plain cycling or for tri) spend far too much time in either in the dead zone or the too hard zone. The Trainer Road tri plans, IMO, are way too hard from workout to workout with negative downstream consequences on future bike and run workouts. They will work for many/most over the short term (which could be 2-3 years) but it will take an eventual toll. Same with stuff like EN. Their bike workouts are just too hard for the long term. The whole point of polarization is to keep most of the workouts easy so you can really destroy the hard workouts. You don't need to destroy every workout. People would be surprised by how effective one killer workout in each discipline is per week while easing up on the other workouts. I've been coming to that realization more too. They might be of some help at times if people get stuck, looking for a breakthrough, but something noteworthy from Seiler's presentation is how so many elites in all different sports were able to keep it up year round with the high/low. The specific workouts may change (he didn't track to that level of detail), but the 80/20 was largely kept to all the time. |
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