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2016-06-16 6:01 PM

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Subject: Gun Control
As expected, the left have turned a terrorist attack into a gun control issue. I guess a terrorist attack does not fit the 'al Qaeda is on the run' narrative.

But let's talk gun control. I have yet to hear how any new laws would reduce gun violence. And here is why. All the gun laws deal with the transfer of guns between gun dealers and buyers. I have about 30 guns. Very few of them did I buy from a dealer. Some I inherited from my granddaddy and dad, some were gifts, a couple belong to my brother who is out of the country and some I bought from my step dad who is a garage sale nut and bought hundreds of guns at garage sales. Therein lies the biggest 'loophole' in gun laws. Any gun can be sold by its owner to another person. There is no record of the sale, there is no background check and there is no waiting period.

My stepdad used to go to garage sales and ask, "Any guns for sale?" And more often than not the homeowner would have some old gun in the house they didn't mind selling.

It has been proposed to use the do not fly list to ban someone from buying a gun. The problem is there is no due process for putting someone on the list. What if they put all Muslims on the list?

So putting all the bumper stickers away, what laws might help cut down on gun violence? I think the "assault weapon" ban is a red herring. My 357 is just as deadly and my 9mm can hold a 20 rd mag and takes about 1.25 seconds to change magazines.

I'm an NRA member but willing to listen to legislation ideas.


2016-06-16 8:44 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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I am against any gun control whatsoever. 

This is a country of 300,000,000+ guns.  The horse is out of the barn. 

If you want to be safer I suggest arming yourself and learning how to shoot well.  I didn't make the rules, but there are apparently plenty of people who are sick enough to use a gun in an unprovoked attack.  You can hide and hope for the best if you find yourself in that situation, or be prepared to defend yourself. I'm not hoping for help.   Dozens of Police officers were outside of the Pulse nightclub while that idiot shot 100 people as they hid (don't get me started on that).  No thanks.

I don't like to offer that advice.......but we are where we are.

2016-06-17 7:28 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

I am against any gun control whatsoever. 

This is a country of 300,000,000+ guns.  The horse is out of the barn. 

If you want to be safer I suggest arming yourself and learning how to shoot well.  I didn't make the rules, but there are apparently plenty of people who are sick enough to use a gun in an unprovoked attack.  You can hide and hope for the best if you find yourself in that situation, or be prepared to defend yourself. I'm not hoping for help.   Dozens of Police officers were outside of the Pulse nightclub while that idiot shot 100 people as they hid (don't get me started on that).  No thanks.

I don't like to offer that advice.......but we are where we are.




Well said.

If someone can come up with a idea that would help I'm willing to listen but there seems to be a knee-jerk reaction from democrats to 'do something' (pass a law) to assuage their frustration and appease their constituents.

Maybe you are right, we just need to accept the world we live in.
2016-06-17 7:30 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
While I agree with gun control being a firm two handed grip, proper sight alignment and steady trigger squeeze, I'm kind of wondering about the statement about the police response. I'm not looking for an argument but have you thought that one through? I wasn't there so I can't say whether their response was right or wrong, or whether your description is accurate.

I imagine the first few officers were there within five minutes of shots being fired. They were probably met by dozens of panicked people running away from the building with some of them bleeding and screaming for help. As more officers arrive they're probably trying to triage wounded, get them out of the immediate area, communicate whatever information (probably most of it wrong in the heat of the moment) and formulate a plan. I would guess most of the carnage was done in these first few minutes of mass confusion. You also have probably several different agencies responding who possibly have different radio frequencies and different training for these situations. Should they have rushed in following Active Shooter training doctrine? I think something should've been done sooner but I don't have all the facts so I can't say for sure. The image of the police outside not doing anything while all of the shooting is going on I think is inaccurate and doesn't take into account the whole situation. If there was complete inaction on the officers' at the scene, then criticism is deserved but I doubt that to be the case.

I 100% agree that people need to react and be the aggressors in these situations, that's the only way to lessen casualties and maybe stop some of these from happening. Much easier said than done of course.

Again, not looking for a peeing match, just throwing a different take out there.
2016-06-17 8:29 AM
in reply to: jgs733

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
The only thing that could have lessened the number of people killed is if some of the patrons in the club were armed and started shooting back. I don't go to bars or clubs any more but if I did I'd probably be packin'. I have a small 356 designed specifically for concealed carry. It is a revolver but does not have a hammer to pull back (or get caught on your pocket).
2016-06-17 8:36 AM
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Subject: RE: Gun Control

The Police engaged the gunman outside the club where a gunfight ensued.  Two people were killed outside and the gunman then went into the night club.  At that point there were a half dozen police cars visible on the video.  The gunman went into the club and shot 100 people.....he was never engaged by the Police in the club.  I don't know their reasoning and I wasn't there. (I hope they have a good reason for not attacking sooner) But I know this..... since Columbine, where the Police waited for a SWAT unit to arrive while people were being killed, Police agencies in this country train only one way for an active shooter event........and that is to attack and try to prevent more killing.  It is unarguable that the gunman walked around that club for quite a while shooting people, unopposed....there is video of it.

That being said, my point is a simple one. (and doesn't include second guessing the Police response in this case)  You may be completely on your own trying to survive a mass shooting incident.  Do you want to hide and pray for help or have the ability to fight?  I don't want to die hiding.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-06-17 8:46 AM


2016-06-17 8:56 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
with all this talk that everyone needs to be well trained and well armed at all time including people who might be drunk and high. (this happened in a club after all).

How many fights might turn deadly now everyone is armed?

In a drunk,crowded situation how easy is it to identify and only hit the active shooter? Remember once you shoot you looks like an active shooter yourself.

How many man hours will we train to get that point? Is 5 hours a week enough for target practice and will we become a more violent culture now everyone needs to be willing at a moments notice to shoot anyone and everyone?

To me I think this solution will cause more shootings than we get from these nut jobs.
2016-06-17 9:06 AM
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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by chirunner134 with all this talk that everyone needs to be well trained and well armed at all time including people who might be drunk and high. (this happened in a club after all). How many fights might turn deadly now everyone is armed? In a drunk,crowded situation how easy is it to identify and only hit the active shooter? Remember once you shoot you looks like an active shooter yourself. How many man hours will we train to get that point? Is 5 hours a week enough for target practice and will we become a more violent culture now everyone needs to be willing at a moments notice to shoot anyone and everyone? To me I think this solution will cause more shootings than we get from these nut jobs.

You will have to make a personal choice on when and where you will carry a gun and how proficient you want to be with it.  Your safety is ultimately your responsibility.  Again, my point is that the only way you can be sure to be able to defend yourself is with a weapon of your own.  I have been allowed and encouraged to wear a gun at all times for the last 30 years.  I didn't for 25 of them.  Not anymore.  There are just too many crazy people with guns now and no way to get them back.  Again, I didn't make the rules......but I'm not willing to be a victim if I can help it.

The thing is.....every time one of these incidents happen gun sales INCREASE exponentially.  All this talk about reeling gun sales in and it has the opposite effect.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-06-17 9:08 AM
2016-06-17 9:07 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Wasn't aware of the engagement outside the club so that puts the earlier post in a better perspective. You're 100% right, Active Shooter training should've kicked in and they should've gone back in after the guy. Yes it's dangerous, yes you may be killed but that's what you do, you go. I wonder why someone among the road officers didn't take charge and lead a squad in. There could be a whole sad list of reasons if that's the case, some of which I've seen personally, but that's for another time.

You're dead nuts on about fighting back, that's a mindset that is a total uphill battle with people, especially in a panic situation but that's the only way to fight these animals.

Blustering politicians who've never faced danger and only want to coopt these tragedies for their own agenda will never do anything, regardless of how much they "fight for the American people."

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
2016-06-17 10:40 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

The thing is.....every time one of these incidents happen gun sales INCREASE exponentially.  All this talk about reeling gun sales in and it has the opposite effect.




or if Obama gets elected because he is coming for your guns.

Thing about that makes me wonder how many are first time buyers vs people worried about a ban on gun x so they feel they need to get gun x now.

2016-06-17 10:54 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

Do you want to hide and pray for help or have the ability to fight?  I don't want to die hiding.




You know that goes against your gubment Active Shooter training. You are supposed to run and hide......


I don't know what I would actually do.....but would like to think I'd die a hero trying to stop the guy....like the guys on flight 93.


2016-06-17 10:58 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Your safety is ultimately your responsibility. 


Wow, please accept my apologies for calling your a democrat last week!

2016-06-17 10:59 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by chirunner134
Originally posted by Left Brain

The thing is.....every time one of these incidents happen gun sales INCREASE exponentially.  All this talk about reeling gun sales in and it has the opposite effect.

or if Obama gets elected because he is coming for your guns. Thing about that makes me wonder how many are first time buyers vs people worried about a ban on gun x so they feel they need to get gun x now.

If you want to know how many are first time buyers go to your local gun range this weekend and see for yourself.  You will likely be astonished at how crowded it is with people who you would not associate with gun ownership. 

But yeah, others are stocking up on guns and ammo.....because they can.

It doesn't matter.....pay attention....there are over 300,000,000 guns in this country.....and probably approaching 400,000,000.  It is very easy for bad guys to get a gun these days ( thousands get stolen each week out of unlocked cars nationwide).  The chance of running into someone with a gun meaning to harm you has risen substantially in the last 5-10 years.  You're not going to walk that back any time soon.

2016-06-17 11:02 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by chirunner134

Originally posted by Left Brain

The thing is.....every time one of these incidents happen gun sales INCREASE exponentially.  All this talk about reeling gun sales in and it has the opposite effect.




or if Obama gets elected because he is coming for your guns.

Thing about that makes me wonder how many are first time buyers vs people worried about a ban on gun x so they feel they need to get gun x now.





Guess I'm guilty. I always liked my M16 and thought it was a great weapon. I've thought for a long time it would be nice to have an AR-15 but have just never gotten around to buying one. But if it looks like they will be taken off the market I will go ahead and pull the trigger and buy one. (pun intended)
2016-06-17 11:08 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Do you want to hide and pray for help or have the ability to fight?  I don't want to die hiding.

You know that goes against your gubment Active Shooter training. You are supposed to run and hide...... I don't know what I would actually do.....but would like to think I'd die a hero trying to stop the guy....like the guys on flight 93.

No it doesn't.  We train to attack in active shooter situations.  In fact, even the training to schools has changed from hide or "shelter in place" to fighting back.

2016-06-17 11:55 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Do you want to hide and pray for help or have the ability to fight?  I don't want to die hiding.

You know that goes against your gubment Active Shooter training. You are supposed to run and hide...... I don't know what I would actually do.....but would like to think I'd die a hero trying to stop the guy....like the guys on flight 93.

No it doesn't.  We train to attack in active shooter situations.  In fact, even the training to schools has changed from hide or "shelter in place" to fighting back.




I am not an expert by any means, but we had a "training" (it was an hour presentation plus video) on the campus. We were given plenty of tips and "ideas" what to do if a shooter comes to school. I was first watching it with fear, but then there were some statistics provided showing that those who were kind of mentally prepared were more likely to survive than those who just completely did not know what to do and got lost in panic mode.

While university settings are much different than nightclub, for obvious reasons, I *think* some info from that short training is still in the back of my head and I hope it would activate in the case of emergency. One of the things police officer told us was whenever we enter a new building, just look around for any walls, windows, halls and places where you can at least get out from the fire line, and get your plan together. Not going paranoid, but I kind of do pay attention to the "interior design" of different places I go to. Especially when I go with my kids.


2016-06-17 12:24 PM
in reply to: marysia83

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently.

I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.
2016-06-17 12:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.



Edited by Left Brain 2016-06-17 12:47 PM
2016-06-17 1:00 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.




This is exactly what we were told during our training.
That if you distract the shooter or kind of "surprise" him with the fact that he was not prepared to have anyone fight back, you can gain some time, make him miss, or some other scenarios.
2016-06-18 10:18 AM
in reply to: marysia83

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
I work in at the airport, the ultimate gun free zone, so hide or flee makes sense from the company standpoint. None of us should be armed, right? I do carry a 4 inch lock blade, but that sets up the lopsided 'bring a knife to a gunfight' scenario. Last resort, I could scream like a banshee and attack with the knife… that sets up another messy problem. Close quarters knife fighting is not quite like it's depicted in the movies. Without proper training, you really, really, really have to want to live to kill someone with a knife. It's not just a stick em once and they're dead proposal in most instances.
2016-06-19 7:37 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.

CRAP   CRAP    CRAP!

This is the second time TODAY that I've (reluctantly) agreed with you. 

Run-Hide-Fight.  Do something, do ANYTHING...but do it with aggression and rage.

(I may have just thrown up a bit in my mouth. lol)



2016-06-19 9:50 PM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: Gun Control

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.

CRAP   CRAP    CRAP!

This is the second time TODAY that I've (reluctantly) agreed with you. 

Run-Hide-Fight.  Do something, do ANYTHING...but do it with aggression and rage.

(I may have just thrown up a bit in my mouth. lol)

Run-Hide-Agree 

2016-06-20 7:35 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.

CRAP   CRAP    CRAP!

This is the second time TODAY that I've (reluctantly) agreed with you. 

Run-Hide-Fight.  Do something, do ANYTHING...but do it with aggression and rage.

(I may have just thrown up a bit in my mouth. lol)

Run-Hide-Agree 




WOW, what are the odds? What's next? Cleveland winning a championship?
2016-06-20 9:47 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by mdg2003



WOW, what are the odds? What's next? Cleveland winning a championship?


That will never happen.
2016-06-20 10:57 AM
in reply to: jeffnboise

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Subject: RE: Gun Control
Originally posted by jeffnboise

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mdg2003 My company has an active shooter training video we have to watch. Their plan is to tuck tail and run or hide. Do not under any circumstance engage or try to stop one of these psychos. We all want to think we could be the hero in such a circumstance, but you never know how you will respond until the SHTF and you are in the middle of it. Facing a heavily armed gunman, I think my best bet will be to get wounded or 'frozen' potential victims to safety. Now if a weapon were to present itself, say something dropped by the gunman or a CCL who dropped it and bugged out… I'd like to think that I'd have the nerve to pick it up and use it competently. I am reluctant to believe that an armed person in the nightclub would have improved matters. Alcohol and guns are a bad mix. Lacking the proper training, mixed with chaos and alcohol are probably worse. What if a CC guy managed to pop up and kill the gunman AND two innocent bystanders in the process? He loses, gets second guessed, sued and thrown in jail for making matters worse. Now if he was able to drop the gunman after the gunman had already killed a bunch of people… he looks a little better and might avoid jail time. What if he's the first guy the police see when they enter the scene? He stands a good chance of dying for trying to help. I'm all for eliminating a lot of gun free zones ( feel free to pile on! ), places like night clubs aren't on my list.

I don't ever look at things that way......and quite a bit of training (and certainly the training we use) is now centered around not being a hero.,.....but a survivor.  The idea is a simple one.  When all options like running are gone (hiding MAY be a good option, maybe not) and you are now faced with someone who is actively shooting people around you.....YOU'RE NEXT!

In the mass shooting in my city 7 people were killed.  4 of them were hiding or crawling away after the initial 3 were killed.  The main target, the city attorney, got up and started throwing chairs at the shooter.  He gained himself enough time for our officers to get in there and kill the bad guy.  He told me afterwards, when I was interviewing him and others who had been in the council chamber, that he just decided he was not going to lay there and die.  He survived. (the officer who was assigned to guard the council chambers was killed first)

I understand that every situation is different but, you should in no way discount fighting back by any means possible.  it has nothing to do with being a hero.....it's all about living.

CRAP   CRAP    CRAP!

This is the second time TODAY that I've (reluctantly) agreed with you. 

Run-Hide-Fight.  Do something, do ANYTHING...but do it with aggression and rage.

(I may have just thrown up a bit in my mouth. lol)




Our active shooter training at work also follows the Run-Hide-Fight progression. I've seen a few training videos recently that have replaced "hide" with"barricade" or something similar. In other words, find a secure location that can't be breached by the shooter where you can seek shelter until help arrives.

Maybe it should be "Run-Barricade-Hide-Fight", but that might be too complicated...
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