General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Advice on new running routine Rss Feed  
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2016-06-22 7:52 AM

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Subject: Advice on new running routine
I had an issue with my knee and thought that the running would always be a problem but I really want to get back into doing tri's again. It wasn't serious, I was told I was running wrong, heel first, and it made my knees hurt. Does anyone have any advice on how I should ease back into running.

Thanks


2016-06-22 8:28 AM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Who told you that?

I'd be HIGHLY selective of who I took advice about running from (esp. matters dealing with form).
2016-06-22 8:54 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Do a google search of "heel strike elite runners" and have fun spending a day with your brain turning to mush.

Go see a GOOD physical therapist.....if you don't know one contact your local pro sports teams or college athletic department and find out who they use.  Advice on run form on one of these boards is about as useful as that google search.

2016-06-22 9:09 AM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

IDK if heel striking is "wrong".  I can only relate my experience with it.  My history with running was limited to HS and college lacrosse.  Not really much outside of that unless it was cross training for swimming but we did very little.  I would have severe pain in my knees when I ran.  FF 15 years and when I got into triathlons the same pain was there.  About 2 years in I read some articles about it and switched to zero drops and a mid foot strike.  I tried to slowly transition but after about two months I felt so good running I ramped it way up and hurt myself.  I also in that time period switched to a fore foot strike.  I now run in an 8mm drop shoe with a mid foot strike.  Knee's feel mostly good outside of a storm coming.  I do have some lower leg issues lingering from getting hurt.  so my cautionary tale is if you change take it slower then you think you should.  Watch for any discomfort or pain.  Be really careful switching shoes. 

2016-06-22 10:50 AM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Thanks great reply. What do you mean by zero drop and 8mm drop shoe? I have been slowly moving to mid foot strike but it is still a struggle since I need to focus on every placement. I'm hoping it we eventually become the norm.
2016-06-22 10:51 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
I did do a search but you know how it goes, you end up with all kinds of advice from who knows who. I like to hear from real people doing what I'm doing.
Thanks


2016-06-22 10:52 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
True. True
Thanks
2016-06-22 11:15 AM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Just build up your running very gradually.  The single biggest mistake most people make, and the reason they get injured, is that they neglect this rule.  Then they try to identify all kinds of bio-mechanical reasons for their problems.  Then they make a change and rebuild very gradually and, viola, pain free running (or they make a change, return to their normal volume of running quickly, get injured again and blame something else).  They attribute it to whatever form change they made, but the most likely explanation is that they allowed their body time to adapt to the rigors of running by building slowly.  Running is hard on the body due to the load-bearing nature of continually jumping and landing with your body weight.  It's often the smaller/stabilizing muscles that take the longest to adapt (rather than the more obvious 'primary' movers).

Try to focus on not 'over-striding' where you reach out with your leg landing well ahead of your center of gravity.  Do not focus on foot strike (allow that to happen naturally--heel first does not equal 'bad').  Do some drills where you run quickly for short bursts 20-30sec and focus on quick turnover and 'light' feet (ie, try to feel yourself minimizing impact and the time each foot spends on the ground).  This will help to ensure you are not over-striding.  Try to get that same feel into your normal, easy running (even though your turnover rate may come down).  

Run with a strong, stable core.  Don't let your upper body sag, especially as you get tired.

2016-06-22 11:27 AM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Offset or the heel height in your sneaker is the basic answer.  Shoes have different offsets and I went from I think a 12mm heel to zero.  I switched running shoe stores and one day I was talking about knee pain and changing my foot strike they recommended Altra zero drops.  The theory in my case was the zero drop would help with the mid foot landing.  Most comfortable shoe I ever wore and the best I ever felt running.  Until I got hurt.  Sorry to beat a dead horse on this but if you switch be super careful.  My transition plan was 3-6 months but probably should've been doubled.  After two months I was out setting PR's every run until I tore my calf.  I wish I had paid more attention to the warnings.  It would've saved me two years of injuries.

Also, without knowing your running history another suggestion if you are newer to running.  Search BarryP running.  It's on another website but you can find it easily enough.  There's lots of ways to go about all of this.  I found this to be the most helpful in the beginning.  It's structured, easy to understand and IME has prevented me from over training on the run. 

2016-06-22 12:04 PM
in reply to: Iank


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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
This is something I'm going through right now. Not because my knees hurt, but because I was told my running form was wrong and I needed to lean forward to absorb more of the strike towards the ball of my feet. After attending a professional event, I noticed every runner was running like this. I have been playing with the new form but am not a fan of how it feels. I'm short and like to stretch my legs and am comfortable with the slower cadence.

I used to race a group of guys once a month. I always came in second and I asked the guy who always beat me what he was doing. He replied that he would consciously stretch his legs out really far to train his muscles for a longer stride. Ever since that day I have been doing this. Now that I have been playing with this other technique, I find it takes impact off the knees some but I can feel more burning in my calves. As a result, on longer runs I actually toggle between the two kind of like I do with cycling between a higher and a lower cadences if I feel like I'm burning out some. I don't know if this is a good or bad habit to make, but I have only been doing it in moderation. Interested to see what other have to say on the topic.
2016-06-22 12:44 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Great post Johnny thanks. I had just read not over-stride, It makes sense, the father my stride goes I will have no choice but to hit with my heel. I like the idea of minimizing impact and the time each foot spends on the ground, sounds like a good thing for me to focus on. Light on my feet. Perfect.Thanks


2016-06-22 12:48 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
No I ran for years and years, did Boston in 11 in just over 4. Never really thought about shoes or technique until the pain. I will have to do some research on the drops. I havn't a clue what my shoes are now. Awesome. Thank you I knew you guys would help.
2016-06-22 12:52 PM
in reply to: runtim23

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Funny you should say that because I was taught on High School track that a long stride was the way to go, saves energy, less steps...bla bla. but you are right I'm seeing more and more with this short bouncy stride. I just read try running in bare feet (not on the street or anything) but apparently you have no choice but to lean forward and run on the mid or ball. I have yet to try it. I'll let you know how it works out.
2016-06-22 1:13 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Originally posted by Iank

Funny you should say that because I was taught on High School track that a long stride was the way to go, saves energy, less steps...bla bla. but you are right I'm seeing more and more with this short bouncy stride. I just read try running in bare feet (not on the street or anything) but apparently you have no choice but to lean forward and run on the mid or ball. I have yet to try it. I'll let you know how it works out.


run barefoot in the outfield of a baseball park...check it of course for holes, metal, scrap, etc... don't think much about what you're doing. when you remove the barrier between your foot and the ground your body's more likley to do what it used ot do when you were a kid.

I started changing my stride by a) reading chi running b) running in a ball field that was 2 baseball diamonds in one park area...I'd jog across the combined outfields and walk back. I did that 10 times and called it a day and waited to see hwo I felt. c) I attended a bobby mcgee running camp (several times). bobby mcgee is one of our sports best running coaches and knows how the body works and doesn't coach based on fads or pseudoscience. He is the current high performance head coach for the USA Triathlon olympic team. d) I built up my running very very ver very gradually over time and transitioned from those barefoot jogs to low drop shoes (new balance trial minimus).

Edited by AdventureBear 2016-06-22 1:13 PM
2016-06-22 1:21 PM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Originally posted by Iank Funny you should say that because I was taught on High School track that a long stride was the way to go, saves energy, less steps...bla bla. but you are right I'm seeing more and more with this short bouncy stride. I just read try running in bare feet (not on the street or anything) but apparently you have no choice but to lean forward and run on the mid or ball. I have yet to try it. I'll let you know how it works out.

Well, speed does combine turnover plus stride length.  And you don't want to 'bounce' a whole lot, as up & down movement isn't what gets you closer to the finish.  Much of the stride length comes from the push off the ground and you want much of the force to be propelling yourself forward (not up), which is way fast runners generally have their heels kicking way up towards their butt.  Your landing leg will reach out in front of you while you are still in the air when running like this, but by the time you make contact, your center of gravity will quickly be catching up.  When you over-stride, you do (by default) hit heel first but the real problem is that you 'brake' your momentum and increase the force of your landing.  This makes you slower and opens you up to more injuries at the same time.  A bad combo!

Running barefoot is another change that she be undertaken VERY cautiously.  While people will point to early-day man who ran barefoot constantly as an indicator that the human body was built to do this, they are not entirely wrong, but they often forget to remind people that those people did it CONSTANTLY so that their body developed in order to handle the stresses and loads involved in running in that fashion.  For modern day man who wears shoes most of the time, this represents a BIG change.  If you do it, start with only very small doses and try to keep it on 'forgiving' surfaces as much as possible.

2016-06-22 1:26 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Do these drills often.....as if they are as important as the runs you do.  If you are diligent and regular with your work you will become a more efficient and better runner.  No shortcuts or easy fixes.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVoCU12pXHaUA6nonnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEycjJpODlpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjIxNzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Dathan+Ritzinheim+Drills&fr=yhs-mozilla-002&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002#id=1&vid=8ad160f402750a75347eac3ee88b3604&action=view



2016-06-22 1:33 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

Originally posted by Left Brain

Do these drills often.....as if they are as important as the runs you do.  If you are diligent and regular with your work you will become a more efficient and better runner.  No shortcuts or easy fixes.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVoCU12pXHaUA6nonnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTEycjJpODlpBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQjIxNzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-?p=Dathan+Ritzinheim+Drills&fr=yhs-mozilla-002&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-002#id=1&vid=8ad160f402750a75347eac3ee88b3604&action=view

These are much better than trying to run barefoot or change which part of your foot you make contact to the ground first.

2016-06-22 1:58 PM
in reply to: JohnnyKay

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Great point, yeah I was only going to try it in back yard to try and notice my stride length. Is there something to "their heels kicking way up towards their butt" I don't think mine is even close.
2016-06-22 1:59 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Awesome resource. Thanks!
2016-06-22 2:16 PM
in reply to: Left Brain


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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
lol I'm going to do these through the shopping mall this evening.
Thanks for sharing.
2016-06-23 11:33 AM
in reply to: Iank

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine

I was having some knee issues 2-3 years ago.  An ultra runner employee at the local Fleet Feet store told me to adjust my stride length such that my foot plant never extends past the knee...pretty much ensures a mid to forefoot foot strike.    I've had no issues since then.



2016-06-25 4:45 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano


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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano

Offset or the heel height in your sneaker is the basic answer.  Shoes have different offsets and I went from I think a 12mm heel to zero.  I switched running shoe stores and one day I was talking about knee pain and changing my foot strike they recommended Altra zero drops.  The theory in my case was the zero drop would help with the mid foot landing.  Most comfortable shoe I ever wore and the best I ever felt running.  Until I got hurt.  Sorry to beat a dead horse on this but if you switch be super careful.  My transition plan was 3-6 months but probably should've been doubled.  After two months I was out setting PR's every run until I tore my calf.  I wish I had paid more attention to the warnings.  It would've saved me two years of injuries.

Also, without knowing your running history another suggestion if you are newer to running.  Search BarryP running.  It's on another website but you can find it easily enough.  There's lots of ways to go about all of this.  I found this to be the most helpful in the beginning.  It's structured, easy to understand and IME has prevented me from over training on the run. 


[/QUOTE

Wow! I was so compelled to share my experience...exactly the same. I've been running since the early 70's and fortunately for me, I've been relatively injury-free. It was my fault.

I am a "heel striker". In my desire to improve, I began running midsole/front/toe striker...gradually my speed got better and getting new PR's every race. Then I was introduced to the Altras zero drop shoes. I loved it. Very excited, I purchased a few pairs. (Still kept my good ol' New Balance shoes.)

Well, the honeymoon is over and the marriage will be annulled. I tore both my calves earlier this year. Perhaps it wasn't so much the shoes fault but now upon reflection and much reading...I did not allow my body/legs to adapt correctly to the zero drop shoes.

Both my calves have healed and I'm back to running....back running in my good ol' New Balance. Thanks.
2016-06-30 2:55 PM
in reply to: bonsai3s

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Subject: RE: Advice on new running routine
I trying some zero drop shoes now. So far I really like them but I'm taking it super slow. Thanks
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