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When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage?
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 2016-06-24 7:37 AM |
Expert  2852     Pfafftown, NC |  Subject: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage?I guess I'm looking for some sort of line of demarcation. I just bought a road bike - and one of my "must haves" was the ability to switch my race wheels (Flo 60/90) back and forth between it and my tri bike. I'm wondering, though, if there's any advantage to be gained in doing so. I'm pretty sure the "race wheels" are heavier (though I haven't weighed them). I understand their shape is an aero benefit, but for training on hills and what not......I wouldn't think there's an advantage to running them on EITHER bike. While I'm going "there", I might as well ask these questions, also...... 1. I have an international dist. tri coming up in a few weeks. for a course full of rollers, are "race wheels" actually faster than an average set (say....the set that came on my P2) of training wheels? 2. I'll ride my tri bike in the race (due to fit), but I'm wondering if a road bike wouldn't give most people an advantage (with the same training wheels)...on a course with moderate rollers? Assuming I wanted to just set the road bike up to ride on the trainers (wheels) most all of the time, I'm thinking I will (at 190#s) put some wider tires on them. What would be a good brand and mm for someone my size (25? 28?)? Any disadvantages to running the wider tire (again, for someone my size)? Is there a set of training wheels that is "really good" for this scenario (v. the ones that come on most bikes)? How much does such a set cost (ball-park)? Thanks for your help. |
| 2016-06-24 7:57 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
| 360 Ottawa, Ontario | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? This may be helpful: http://flocycling.blogspot.ca/2014/01/flo-cycling-great-debate-aero... The basic idea is that aero trumps weight (almost) every time. If you're racing up Alp d'Huez you might consider ditching the deep race wheels, but in 99% of cases you'll be faster with aero wheels. I wouldn't go with a road bike for course with rollers. If there were lots of technical descents where the road twists and turns, I'd look at a road bike, but if the rollers are mostly straight I'd think the tri bike would be the way to go. |
| 2016-06-24 8:06 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Your tri bike will always be faster assuming you stay aero. If the coarse is too technical for the rider on a tri bike than a road bike might be faster. Road bike handle better so if the coarse is that technical that you are always out of aero then you will probably be more comfortable and corn faster on the road bike. I don't know the weight of your flo wheels but I don't think they are very heavy. With that they are probably just as fast on uphill's as your stock wheels and faster everywhere else. weight, gearing and comfort matter going uphill. With that said I am much faster going up hills on my tri bike than my road bike. Here is why: my tri bike weight 4 lbs less than my road bike I have a 34 chain ring on the tri bike vs a 39 on the road bike, and I am plenty comfortable riding out aero or standing on the tri bike. |
| 2016-06-24 8:28 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Aero race wheels are pretty much always an advantage unless you get climbs that are long and steep. Short steep or long gradual are still within the area of advantage aero over weight. The only time I ride my road bike in a race is when it's REALLY hilly (not rolling, or short steep climbs) or extremely technical descends (the two are usually happening in the same race though..), otherwise I'll stick to my tri bike. In the case of your race, I would strongly recommend tri bike with race wheels. There's no way a road bike will be a faster choice on a rolling course. I would stick with Continental GP4000S II 25mm tires. 28's are really too wide unless you ride extremely bad roads (but make sure 28's will fit you bike... you will have clearance issues on most bikes). |
| 2016-06-24 8:40 AM in reply to: audiojan |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? when you aren't moving. |
| 2016-06-24 9:01 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2. |
| 2016-06-24 9:08 AM in reply to: Goggles Pizzano |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2. I have no idea. I also have no idea of the weight of the stock wheels. I appreciate the info, guys. Good stuff. |
| 2016-06-24 9:33 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| 194 , North Carolina | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by dmiller5 when you aren't moving. This^ No but seriously... Aero Wheels are always of an advantage... I remember reading discussion from the pro's at last years 70.3 Worlds where it was really hilly and they even had a speed limit on one of the descents... the discussion was to use a Disc or not because of aero vs weight... (not... that's disc vs aero wheels like 808's) and even still many of them opted for the disc. That's because on the downhill potion the aero is really a huge advantage. So if that's on a very hilly HIM... I'd say rollers would be a no brainer |
| 2016-06-24 9:47 AM in reply to: nc452010 |
| DC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? I'm surprised no one's mentioned this: I have pretty solid control of my tri bike... but there's a certain amount of wind that causes me to get out of aero while using race wheels (Flo 60's). There, that's when race wheels are not an advantage & in fact, a disadvantage IMO. |
| 2016-06-24 12:07 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
| Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano I have no idea. I also have no idea of the weight of the stock wheels. I appreciate the info, guys. Good stuff. How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2.
Wheel specs including weight are on FLO's website |
| 2016-06-24 12:12 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano I have no idea. I also have no idea of the weight of the stock wheels. I appreciate the info, guys. Good stuff. How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2.
Wheel specs including weight are on FLO's website But, unless I knew the weight of the stock wheels...........the information wouldn't mean much.......to me. I appreciate the heads-up, though. |
| 2016-06-24 12:25 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
| Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? According to my bike shop guy, any time you can make something that goes around lighter (wheels, pedals, shoes) there is a benefit of weight and watts. Aerodynamics also come into play in many but not all scenarios, such as high winds from the side, as some others have mentioned above. |
| 2016-06-24 12:45 PM in reply to: SenatorClayDavis |
| Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? |
| 2016-06-24 12:46 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by ChrisM But, unless I knew the weight of the stock wheels...........the information wouldn't mean much.......to me. I appreciate the heads-up, though. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano I have no idea. I also have no idea of the weight of the stock wheels. I appreciate the info, guys. Good stuff. How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2.
Wheel specs including weight are on FLO's website If only they made some space age device that could tell you the force that gravity is having on the mass of an object so you could tell its weight.... if only....
or.... google current P2, RS010 wheels, weight accdg to shimano is 1.88 Kg per set. May not be exactly your stock wheels but likely close enough... and accdg to Flo rear is 997 g and front is 727 g. So FLO is lighter Edited by ChrisM 2016-06-24 12:51 PM |
| 2016-06-24 1:09 PM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by dmiller5 when you aren't moving. False! Even when the bike is stopped the race wheels look cooler, so advantage race wheels! |
| 2016-06-24 1:12 PM in reply to: melbo55 |
Pro 5892 , New Hampshire | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by melbo55 According to my bike shop guy, any time you can make something that goes around lighter (wheels, pedals, shoes) there is a benefit of weight and watts. Aerodynamics also come into play in many but not all scenarios, such as high winds from the side, as some others have mentioned above. Hmmm... lighter is good, but really only if it get's to be steep and long. Otherwise, aerodynamics has an advantage. And cross winds are not that bad at all with modern rim shapes. A cross wind can actually propel you forward, so a disc may actually get faster from a cross wind. |
| 2016-06-24 1:26 PM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by ChrisM Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by ChrisM But, unless I knew the weight of the stock wheels...........the information wouldn't mean much.......to me. I appreciate the heads-up, though. Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by Goggles Pizzano I have no idea. I also have no idea of the weight of the stock wheels. I appreciate the info, guys. Good stuff. How heavy are the Flo's ? I have Zipp 404's and they feel a lot lighter then the stock wheels that came with my P2.
Wheel specs including weight are on FLO's website If only they made some space age device that could tell you the force that gravity is having on the mass of an object so you could tell its weight.... if only....
or.... google current P2, RS010 wheels, weight accdg to shimano is 1.88 Kg per set. May not be exactly your stock wheels but likely close enough... and accdg to Flo rear is 997 g and front is 727 g. So FLO is lighter Or, I could wait around a bit and someone who wants to know the information more than me would probably post it. Hey....while you're on a roll.......the stock bike comes with a 6800 11/32 cassette. My Flo 90 rear has a 5800 11/28 cassette on it. I was commenting on the perceived weight difference between the stock bike...........and the stock bike with the Flo's on it.  Edited by nc452010 2016-06-24 1:43 PM |
| 2016-06-24 2:26 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
| Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? To be honest I don't care what they weigh. I was actually more interested in how amazingly easy this information was to find in a matter of mere seconds. |
| 2016-06-24 2:32 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by ChrisM To be honest I don't care what they weigh. I was actually more interested in how amazingly easy this information was to find in a matter of mere seconds. Well, if it was so easy, you'd think you would have gotten it right. You never asked if my wheels were carbon........or carbon/aluminum. My rear, alone, weighs 1232 g. Do you post a lot on the subjects you don't care about? I had no intentions of getting into a contest with anyone. It's CERTAINLY not that important, to me. |
| 2016-06-24 2:52 PM in reply to: nc452010 |
New user 273 Manassas, Virginia | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by nc452010 Starting to feel like ST in here...Originally posted by ChrisM Well, if it was so easy, you'd think you would have gotten it right. To be honest I don't care what they weigh. I was actually more interested in how amazingly easy this information was to find in a matter of mere seconds. You never asked if my wheels were carbon........or carbon/aluminum. My rear, alone, weighs 1232 g. Do you post a lot on the subjects you don't care about? I had no intentions of getting into a contest with anyone. It's CERTAINLY not that important, to me. |
| 2016-06-24 3:48 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by nc452010 Originally posted by ChrisM To be honest I don't care what they weigh. I was actually more interested in how amazingly easy this information was to find in a matter of mere seconds. Well, if it was so easy, you'd think you would have gotten it right. You never asked if my wheels were carbon........or carbon/aluminum. My rear, alone, weighs 1232 g. Do you post a lot on the subjects you don't care about? I had no intentions of getting into a contest with anyone. It's CERTAINLY not that important, to me.
Ah, and now I remember why I stopped posting here. Try to help people out and they give you attitude in return, I just assumed if you asked a question saying "I don't know" something you'd have taken the seconds it takes to try to figure it our. But I'm always giving people too much credit. Sorry for trying to help guess if you're gonna be an azz you'e gonna be an azz. I'm out! Edited by ChrisM 2016-06-24 3:48 PM |
| 2016-06-24 3:52 PM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 2852 Pfafftown, NC | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by ChrisM If only they made some space age device that could tell you the force that gravity is having on the mass of an object so you could tell its weight.... if only....
or.... google current P2, RS010 wheels, weight accdg to shimano is 1.88 Kg per set. May not be exactly your stock wheels but likely close enough... and accdg to Flo rear is 997 g and front is 727 g. So FLO is lighter Sorry. Thanks for your help . Edited by nc452010 2016-06-24 3:53 PM |
| 2016-06-24 4:48 PM in reply to: melbo55 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by melbo55 According to my bike shop guy, any time you can make something that goes around lighter (wheels, pedals, shoes) there is a benefit of weight and watts. Aerodynamics also come into play in many but not all scenarios, such as high winds from the side, as some others have mentioned above. Your bike shop guy is incorrect. Shane |
| 2016-06-24 5:14 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Veteran 945 South Windsor, CT | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? I would not discount wind as a disadvantage. Strong crosswinds, especially on race wheels you are not used to, can make the bike MUCH more difficult to handle. If you don't finish, that's not a strong advantage. You absolutely have to be able to handle a deep dish/aero wheel-cover and let me tell you, from someone who is not an A+ bike skill guy, it can be quite dicey with strong winds. I would put strong winds in the disadvantage group, which is a tiny group, for those cyclists with LESS experience with aero race wheels. |
| 2016-06-24 6:15 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Extreme Veteran 1986 Cypress, TX | Subject: RE: When are "race wheels" NOT an advantage? Originally posted by gsmacleod Originally posted by melbo55 Your bike shop guy is incorrect. Shane According to my bike shop guy, any time you can make something that goes around lighter (wheels, pedals, shoes) there is a benefit of weight and watts. Aerodynamics also come into play in many but not all scenarios, such as high winds from the side, as some others have mentioned above. Shane beat me to it. They don't know what they're talking about. Which is very typical for roadie focused bike shops. |
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