General Discussion Triathlon Talk » whole food vs. bars for training Rss Feed  
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2016-09-25 6:38 PM

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Subject: whole food vs. bars for training
I think that BT removed the nutrition thread that used to be here, unless I just can't find it somewhere.

I have read a lot about real food during races but I just had an thought. I cut a lot of carbs out of my diet. Haven't had rice or pasta, or very sweet fruits in a long time. Craving and eating plain oatmeal and flourless breads now that I'm starting to train - really from scratch, so times and distances are not significant yet.
I'll have a lower carb granola or some other bar after a workout. I've cut out added sugar and then I'm eating bars with added sugar, even if it isn't much. I'm thinking about going more whole food - a ball of brown rice wrapped in a slice of chicken, or a half cup of plain oatmeal etc.

Any health nuts out there who worry about added sugar in bars, drinks and make other dietary choices? I'm not talking about bars that are just candy but even "healthy" stuff has some form of added sugar.


2016-09-25 6:58 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
To some extent, yes. High blood sugar runs in my family (not diabetes, but "borderline" levels) and I try to avoid unnecessary added sugar, particularly outside of long workouts, where you do, sometimes, need it for energy. I use sugar-free electrolyte drinks and less-sweet bars or other food when possible. Where I really try to cut back on refined sugar is in my day to day diet. A big % of the sugar Americans take in is from drinks (soft drinks, sweetened coffee, tea, and juice) so I pretty much avoid those. There is a great drink here called "soda chanh" which is just soda water with lemon juice (you can ask for it without sugar) so I drink that instead of soft drinks when I want something cold and fizzy--easy to make at home. I try to substitute fruit for juice when possible, and not eat too much of those that are high in sugar. You also really have to know your labels--sugar gets put in a lot of things. Big culprits are yogurt and baked goods, even things like bread and bagels that aren't supposed to be "sweet", and sauces or other processed foods. In general, the simpler and less processed the food, the better. For example, even if you are adding some brown sugar or honey to oatmeal, it will probably still have less sugar than most commercially available flavored products. Adding your own puts you in control of the flavor and sugar content.

Another thing to consider is whether you really need sweet snacks, or any snacks, during a workout. If I recall correctly, you've been training mainly for sprint and Olympic distance. I don't normally start hitting the munchies until a workout goes beyond about 90 minutes for a run, or two hours for the bike. It would seem like most beginners' training for sprint and Oly wouldn't routinely hit those times--maybe some of the longer rides. I do know people who use whole foods like rice balls and potatoes on the bike--it seems to work well for them, though it might not be practical for races. As for post-workout refueling, there's no need to use special drinks or bars. Anything with a good combination of carbs and protein will do the trick. For years my go-to has been whole wheat toast with peanut butter and banana. Sadly, the only bakery with real whole-grain bread here has since closed. Still trying to come up with a portable, palatable alternative, especially for days when my post-workout meal is basically a sandwich eaten while walking to work.
2016-09-25 9:08 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
It's not for during training, as you are right, mine are still really short. I'm thinking about carbs because my diet was really low in carbs. I've gotten so used to low carb versions of things that it's still an effort to get my carbs up to about 35% of my diet. I'm not in ketosis, nor do I want to be now. I've got to find a diet that will feed my muscles but not set off my cravings.

Had company and someone left a big bag of corn chips. I've been into it three times today. Just an oz at a time but it felt awful, out of control. Finally just crunched them up and threw them out.

Just weird to realize that I've gotten so strict about processed carbs and yet here I am now eating granola bars with added sugar. Everything else I buy is plain and I add splenda.
2016-09-26 11:26 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
There are plenty of people who use whole foods to train. Dates, potatoes, pureed foods like baby food. There are definitely options.

Good luck!
2016-09-26 11:51 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

Originally posted by MuscleMomma It's not for during training, as you are right, mine are still really short. I'm thinking about carbs because my diet was really low in carbs. I've gotten so used to low carb versions of things that it's still an effort to get my carbs up to about 35% of my diet. I'm not in ketosis, nor do I want to be now. I've got to find a diet that will feed my muscles but not set off my cravings. Had company and someone left a big bag of corn chips. I've been into it three times today. Just an oz at a time but it felt awful, out of control. Finally just crunched them up and threw them out. Just weird to realize that I've gotten so strict about processed carbs and yet here I am now eating granola bars with added sugar. Everything else I buy is plain and I add splenda.

not sure why you think low carb is good for you, you are depleting your glycogen stores.  I eat about 70% carbs.  The secret is that not all carbs are the same. Avoid processed sugar and soda-like things and instead eat whole foods.  Potatoes, bananas, beans, corn, you name it.  if its not processed and its a plant, its probably good for you.  I often ride with bananas, dates, apples, homemade oat bars and things like that.

2016-09-26 12:26 PM
in reply to: dmiller5


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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
Originally posted by dmiller5
not sure why you think low carb is good for you, you are depleting your glycogen stores.  I eat about 70% carbs.  The secret is that not all carbs are the same. Avoid processed sugar and soda-like things and instead eat whole foods.  Potatoes, bananas, beans, corn, you name it.  if its not processed and its a plant, its probably good for you.  I often ride with bananas, dates, apples, homemade oat bars and things like that.




I'm not going to lie and say that the "increased volume of fitness" byproduct of being able to eat whole food....a whole lot of food, I mean....is not lost on me.

Also, I eat processed stuff and chemically stuff here and there. Diet soda. If you took it away from me, I wouldn't be happy. Yes, I find alternatives quite often. But, if you took it away from me, I wouldn't allow it. Same with pizza. And bread. And cheese. Even the occasional Velveeta (THE HORROR!) and Rotel maybe once or twice a football season. Deny me these things and I honestly would see no reason to continue the choices I've made.

Judge away. Either I may or may not die/have 'complications' because I consume diet soda, or carbohydrates or processed something or another....or I go back to being fat. In which case, I know what the end result will be.

I think the reason the whole 'low carbohydrate' has legs is simply because people see such dramatic initial weightloss results. Which gives it this mystique of being magical. But it's not magic. Carbs are essentially....sugar. Next to fat, sugars are the most calorie dense nutrient out there.

When I was in the throes of my weightloss and counting carlores, I quickly found I could have 1 chicken brat on a bun with some mustard, or I could have two of them, covered with some black beans, and onions, and every pepper I could find, and a little BBQ sauce. A whole plate of food for the same calories. Some days, I went without that carb. Some days, I just wanted a chicken brat on a bun with some mustard.


2016-09-26 1:45 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

carbohydrates are 4 cal/gram, proteins are 4 cal/gram and fat is 9 cal/gram...not sure what you are talking about with the whole snd most calorie dense nutrient out there thing...

 

beans are around 70% carbohydrates.  They are just much better for you than bread because they are unprocessed. 

 

2016-09-26 2:03 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by MuscleMomma It's not for during training, as you are right, mine are still really short. I'm thinking about carbs because my diet was really low in carbs. I've gotten so used to low carb versions of things that it's still an effort to get my carbs up to about 35% of my diet. I'm not in ketosis, nor do I want to be now. I've got to find a diet that will feed my muscles but not set off my cravings. Had company and someone left a big bag of corn chips. I've been into it three times today. Just an oz at a time but it felt awful, out of control. Finally just crunched them up and threw them out. Just weird to realize that I've gotten so strict about processed carbs and yet here I am now eating granola bars with added sugar. Everything else I buy is plain and I add splenda.

not sure why you think low carb is good for you, you are depleting your glycogen stores.  I eat about 70% carbs.  The secret is that not all carbs are the same. Avoid processed sugar and soda-like things and instead eat whole foods.  Potatoes, bananas, beans, corn, you name it.  if its not processed and its a plant, its probably good for you.  I often ride with bananas, dates, apples, homemade oat bars and things like that.

 

Yes...there are a lot of health nuts in Triathlon.  Nutrition was my #1 concern when I started triathlon.  I had bonked on multiple marathons and didn't know how I was going to do on a race that was 2/3rd longer than a Triathlon (70.3).  I looked at as much as I could in about 3 weeks time and decided that the high carb diet would be the best for me. My target is 70% carbs, 15% fats, 15% protein.  I don't just go for sugar and processed carbs though.  I focus on complex carbohydrates, fruits, starchy vegetables, and replace processed foods with whole foods which includes limiting the number of sports bars I consume.  They have a place but should not be the corner stone or base of a diet.  They should be a treat that should be used a long with a complete diet not as a way to complete the diet.

2016-09-26 2:05 PM
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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
Originally posted by dmiller5

carbohydrates are 4 cal/gram, proteins are 4 cal/gram and fat is 9 cal/gram...not sure what you are talking about with the whole snd most calorie dense nutrient out there thing...

 

beans are around 70% carbohydrates.  They are just much better for you than bread because they are unprocessed. 

 





Ahhhh......
I'm guessing my wrongness is leftover from a different way I was looking at things there in the midst of my weightloss

It's very possible I was absorbing that info and twisting it within the context of "real world".
In other words....real world choices of nutrient are what lead to the exponential calorie consumption....not the nutrient itself.
I would assume this is where my lack of accurate understanding's coming from.

There's a subculture of weightloss minders out there who always talked in terms of "real world" for bad eaters.
The whole idea originated with the idea that "serving size" is wholly and utterly useless to even bother talking about for those of us who were/are "large". They'll think something along the lines of "the average fat guy's consumption of spaghetti with meat sauce (after 'seconds') close to 700 calories, after a few spoonfuls of parmesean. That's more than a cup of something like black beans and he's not likely to eat a cup of black beans....so let's get real world about this in a way that the fat guy can grasp."

As that fat guy, it was a really beneficial mindset for me.

Real world food choices made by bad eaters by volume...if you will.
That lead to fats (and foods dependent on fats) being "the worst" in terms of real world calorie consumption by a guy like me.
And then carbohydates being "next worse".


I should probably start sorting some of this stuff out and getting it right as my approach and relationship with food is significantly different.


Edited by jhaack39 2016-09-26 2:08 PM
2016-09-26 2:27 PM
in reply to: jhaack39

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

Originally posted by jhaack39
Originally posted by dmiller5

carbohydrates are 4 cal/gram, proteins are 4 cal/gram and fat is 9 cal/gram...not sure what you are talking about with the whole snd most calorie dense nutrient out there thing...

 

beans are around 70% carbohydrates.  They are just much better for you than bread because they are unprocessed. 

 

Ahhhh...... I'm guessing my wrongness is leftover from a different way I was looking at things there in the midst of my weightloss It's very possible I was absorbing that info and twisting it within the context of "real world". In other words....real world choices of nutrient are what lead to the exponential calorie consumption....not the nutrient itself. I would assume this is where my lack of accurate understanding's coming from. There's a subculture of weightloss minders out there who always talked in terms of "real world" for bad eaters. The whole idea originated with the idea that "serving size" is wholly and utterly useless to even bother talking about for those of us who were/are "large". They'll think something along the lines of "the average fat guy's consumption of spaghetti with meat sauce (after 'seconds') close to 700 calories, after a few spoonfuls of parmesean. That's more than a cup of something like black beans and he's not likely to eat a cup of black beans....so let's get real world about this in a way that the fat guy can grasp." As that fat guy, it was a really beneficial mindset for me. Real world food choices made by bad eaters by volume...if you will. That lead to fats (and foods dependent on fats) being "the worst" in terms of real world calorie consumption by a guy like me. And then carbohydates being "next worse". I should probably start sorting some of this stuff out and getting it right as my approach and relationship with food is significantly different.

 

when I started looking in to what eating healthy is all about, I was shocked.  A donut, everyone calls that mostly carbs...its really about 2/3 fat depending on where you buy it.   the relationship with food is super important.  I'm never "not allowed" to eat anything.  I just try to make the most positive food choices I can.  over time it just becomes second nature.  I don't beat myself up over those donuts because they are a tiny part of my diet.  Mealtime should be looked forward to and enjoyed, and I think a lot of us make it quite stressful with the relationship to food.

2016-09-27 9:21 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
doughnuts and snickers bars and skittles always work


2016-09-30 7:11 PM
in reply to: BuckHamilton

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
Think its different for men and women. I try hard not to get mean when a thin and trim male tells me how much carbs he eats a day.

I'm carb phobic because I find that eating too many increases my appetite and I'm bummed about being a middle aged fat woman. Trying to get a jump on next summer and can't run a mile without my knees hurting. Yes, afraid of carbs and yet want to have energy, but my training load is so light.

Went to a dietitian today. I'm not losing weight because I eat too many calories. She wants to see me go to a 40-30-30 zone type diet, but drop calories. With my light training load she said not to think about any extra food.

and I could never give up diet soda! Trying to substitute tea with splenda....

Here goes...

2016-10-01 7:00 AM
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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
The difference between men and women in how we react to different foods is small. The difference between heavy duty endurance training and casual training is huge. If you need the calories because you're burning lots of them during intense endurance training, carbohydrates are a great source because they are easily converted to energy and they contain lots of energy. If you are a casual triathlete, you may be better served in reducing carbohydrates so you can take weight off. Being lighter on the bike and run is going to help you a lot more than having that carbohydrate energy source.

Good guidelines for diet are:
Eat a variety of foods.
Exercise lots to keep your weight where you want it.
Try to stay away from processed, high sugar and high fat foods.


Edited by b2run 2016-10-01 7:02 AM
2016-10-02 11:15 PM
in reply to: b2run

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
sounds right
2016-10-03 9:21 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
Whole Foods has great options but it's expensive and if you don't live close to one it's a hassle to shop there. Most of us live near bars, but I don't find their food and drink options very conducive to training . . . er, I think I misunderstood the post title!
2016-10-05 1:14 PM
in reply to: tedjohn

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training


2016-10-07 1:23 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

My diet is nowhere close to "pristine" as I like bread (toasted, with jelly), pasta, potatoes, rice (usually brown), chocolate, beer and wine.  At the same time, I don't eat a lot of processed energy (gels, sports drink, energy bars) when I train, but they do have their place. 

I've done 3 140.6's and the training associated with that.  I'll use sports drink on long rides (>3 hours) in hot weather.  I'll use gels on long runs (>2.5 hours) because they're a CONVENIENT form of energy.  On the bike, I'll eat granola bars, breakfast bars, and the occasional Payday candy bar because they're easy to carry.  I'll do runs up to 2.5 hours with just the food in my belly before I start (often a bagel with peanut butter) and some water. 

If your logs are accurate, you can easily skip sports drinks, gels, and all of the other stuff that you are worried will wreck your overall diet.  Get your nutrition as you are, just make sure you're eating enough early enough(before your workout) to get you through your workouts.  Get some carbs and protein (like your rice balls wrapped in turkey) after your workout. 

2016-10-07 1:41 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Went to a dietitian today. I'm not losing weight because I eat too many calories.

For me, this is what it all comes down to. If you're not already, you might try an app like My Fitness Pal. It's super easy to log and track your food (scan bar codes from your phone, look up nearly any food in the USDA database which is connected to the app) to see what you're consuming, and then also input your exercise. These apps usually overestimate calories burned so I cut in half what it guesses for me. It will also break down your macros into carbs, fat, protein, etc.  It's a great resource if you're not sure where to start.

2016-10-09 3:06 PM
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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
lisa, are you still LCHF?

It's really a non-issue now. I had visions of jumping into some good training, but can't seem to get started without something hurting (and not good sore muscle hurting). I'm going shorter and slower just not to start feeling pains.

Edited by MuscleMomma 2016-10-09 3:09 PM
2016-10-09 3:21 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: whole food vs. bars for training
A real whole food diet is best. Processed and sugar laden foods are terrible for you.
Try to eat as much vegan as you can. Meats - be sure to get organic foods. There is a lot of weird, who knows where it came from meat out there.

For training, I use bars. I use Amrita bars. They make 2 kinds of bars - energy bars and recovery bars.
All of their bars are nut-free, soy-free, dairy-free and gluten free. They taste great and they work ! The no nuts thing is great for my GI.

During races longer than oly distance (I don't carry food for oly or shorter) - but for half or full iron, I carry a few of the energy bars. They leave no GI distress and it's all natural energy !

I hope that helps.
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