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For the HR experts out there :)
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 2016-09-29 8:17 AM |
Expert  1074   Tyrone, Georgia |  Subject: For the HR experts out there :)Just curious what people have found in regards to heart rate and Zone 2 training. The reason I ask is I have been a long time HR monitor wearer but have honestly never really looked that closely at the data as I have always trained via RPE. I have taken an interest in really looking harder at the data as I am prepping for a 2017 full distance race and trying to better understand and my question is to those of you with experience either in usage or coaching do you find most people are training in Zone 3 thinking they are in Zone 2? I have pulled and placed my data into a spreadsheet covering the last 4+ years and really was a little surprised at my average heart rates for my runs being at 148 and not so much with my bike efforts at 130. Thanks in advance. |
| 2016-09-29 8:29 AM in reply to: 0 |
Master 8247   Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) I don't coach and can only speak for myself, but I have done quite a bit of my run training with HR and in general, whether or not I am monitoring it, an "easy" or moderate longer run for me is usually mostly in Z2. The only exception would be brick runs (where I tend to start in Z2 and quickly hit the upper edge and even into Z3, even at easy effort) and toward the end of a long run when it's extremely hot, when I might drift up into Z3. In fact, unless I push the pace a little, on a cooler day, an easy run effort often doesn't even get me into Z2. I'm not one of those people who always does her easy runs too fast. I have been running for most of my life, and slow/easy running comes very, very naturally! Unless it's super hot, I almost never go into Z3 "by accident". It requires deliberately running at tempo effort. Might be different if I was running a hilly course, though. The slight disconnect between effort and HR probably has to do with how I did the threshold test--it was a 5K-ish race in very hot, humid conditions, 2-3 hours later in the morning and probably 10 degrees warmer than it usually is when I run here at first light. When I'm running in Oregon, I actually have to run at tempo effort to get into my tropical "Z2", and really hard to hit "Z3". I pretty much had to re-do the zones for a cooler climate! I think for most people the average, threshold, and max HR are going to be bit lower for bike than run, since you are not fighting gravity as much, and there is more of a cooling effect from the wind on the bike. Mine differ by about 6-8 BPM. Edited by Hot Runner 2016-09-29 8:32 AM |
| 2016-09-29 10:37 AM in reply to: dandr614 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) How are you determining your HR zones? Each method has it pro's and con's. Age - N types work for some but not for many. Have you ever done the field LTHR tests to determine your zones? If so great, if not I'd recommend doing them and then see how your RPE is calibrated to HR. BT's HR zone calculator has the LT method. My bike LT was been 10 to 4 bpm lower than my run, depending on my fitness level. My run LTHR has always been between 174 and 177 regardless of fitness level. I've had very good correlation using run LTHR zones and run pace zones from McMillan's run pace calculator. Hotrunner has some good points about HR drift and also the weather's impact. Nothing better for the ego here in FL than the1st "cold" front of the fall!
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| 2016-09-29 11:26 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 1660 | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) Here is the reality:
Most AGers who aren't die-hard at the sport, try their best, but often end up not sticking to their training schedule (or plan, even if it's not on paper) and end up missing workouts.
Then they go on
Thing is, this is NOT a bad thing. If you miss workouts, making yourself go easy on the remaining workouts will just make you slower.
Of course, the best solution is to stick to your plan, don't miss the workouts, and then if you've picked the correct plan with the correct volume and intensity for your level, it will likely workout that you will naturally train in Z2 on the non-hard days, and then Z3-5 on the hard days - it will simply be too tiring to go Z3-5 day in day out when you're sticking to a regimen that's already pushing your limits.
The biggest misunderstanding with HR that beginners have is that they read coaches recommend "do the vast bulk of your running in Z2" and then they look at their low-volume and sporadic training and conclude - wow, sounds like I'm running TOO hard, so maybe I should pull back the effort to Z2 on my already limited and sporadic training schedule and hope to get faster! Mr. Obvious would point out that if you train less, you get slower, not faster. The whole point of training in Z2 is to add (a lot) more run volume to what you are already doing. If you do not add the run volume, but take away what intensity is left, you just get slower (duh). Edited by yazmaster 2016-09-29 11:26 AM |
| 2016-09-29 5:28 PM in reply to: yazmaster |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) Was going to say something like that but wasn't sure how to phrase it..... If you are doing hard training, particularly (at least for me) tri training where you are also doing quite a bit of biking, you should be too tired to routinely hit Z3 on an "easy" day, assuming you have set the zones correctly and are giving your more intense workouts an honest effort. I can't think of too many times when I have felt like spontaneously speeding up on an easy day! That DOES happen in the off-season sometimes, or on a vacation when I'm running sporadically. I might just happen to feel good one day, push the pace a little, and possibly get into Z3. I've been doing fairly high-volume, intense training focused on HIM for about 16 months (from May 2015 until Worlds earlier this month) and except for a couple of vacations, recovery weeks, and maybe during taper, on most runs I simply haven't felt that level of sprightliness. (Doesn't help that I'm 47, and my job has me on my feet most of the day!) I'm doing easier maintenance stuff right now, and I've had some runs where I probably did go to Z3 unintentionally just because I felt good. That made me realize it's been a LONG time since my legs have felt that good! |
| 2016-09-29 9:18 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Master 3888 Overland Park, KS | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) Early in the year I had a metabolic test done. I ran on a treadmill with the mask which captured my VO2 etc. so I was able to establish my training zones and determine VO2 Max and so on. So now I wear a Heat Rate Monitor for all my runs and adjust my pace to stay in Zone 2 except for speed work and tempo runs etc. Previous to that after a 2+ hour run etc. I would feel pretty beat up but after 8 months or so of HR based training I feel pretty darn good after a long run. My pace used to be 8:15-8:30 for runs over 6 miles etc. but now I'm between 8:45-9:15. But I PR'd my HIM with this "slower" running with zero speedwork. Not sure about my 5K time yet but I think I've used HR zones the way their intended to be used. If I do a hard effort on the bike, 20-30 miles my average HR is prett close to my average Z2 HR during running. So for example my Average HR might be 135 or so for a 30 mile hard effort on the bike and that's about what my average HR would be on a 6-14 mile run. I only look at HR for running to help me stay in Z2 but I don't pay attention to it for riding. That metabolic test gave really great info for establishment of training zones, highly recommend it. |
| 2016-09-30 3:00 PM in reply to: dandr614 |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) I train with Heart rate. It's a great tool but it's not perfect. You are almost always better off combining it with another piece of information if you can like power or RPE. A huge part of long course training is done in zones 1-2. But it is super important to include those zone 4 intervals every week. It's those zone 4 and 5 intervals that will give you the strength to keep going at the end of the race. At the same time research seems to show that the big physical aerobic changes happen in those longer moderate workouts. So it's a balance. I find that there are 2 groups of people those who hate zone 1-2 workouts and honestly will do everything in 3 and above if you let them. They will set out for an easy run and then come back and report a faster time than the same route a week before. Then there are also lots of people who avoid high intensity and so they want to skip the high intensity intervals. The job of a coach is to figure out where you fall in there one and try and keep you on task. |
| 2016-09-30 3:01 PM in reply to: reecealan |
Expert 1074 Tyrone, Georgia | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) Thanks all for the replies, thinking I am in Z2 on the bike but probably pushing a little too hard on my runs. Starting to work with a respected coach on Monday so hoping to gain additional insight as well. Regards |
| 2016-09-30 4:39 PM in reply to: dandr614 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) Originally posted by dandr614 Thanks all for the replies, thinking I am in Z2 on the bike but probably pushing a little too hard on my runs. Starting to work with a respected coach on Monday so hoping to gain additional insight as well. Regards So how do you know? Do the test(s)! |
| 2016-10-01 2:45 PM in reply to: Donto |
Expert 1074 Tyrone, Georgia | Subject: RE: For the HR experts out there :) That is the plan donto  |
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