General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Logging swims to TrainingPeaks Rss Feed  
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2016-10-18 12:13 PM


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Subject: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Hi all,

I am pretty data-driven in my training, and live under the device "if it is not logged - it did not happen". :-) From having done cycling and running, I will now add swimming and get into triathlon. The question is - how do I log my swims (pool and open water)? For cycling I have Garmin Edge device and for running I am using a Garmin Forerunner. It uploads everything to TrainingPeaks and calculates TSS etc.

So what do people use for swimming?

Best,
Fredrik


2016-10-18 1:57 PM
in reply to: fbackman

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Originally posted by fbackman

Hi all,

I am pretty data-driven in my training, and live under the device "if it is not logged - it did not happen". :-) From having done cycling and running, I will now add swimming and get into triathlon. The question is - how do I log my swims (pool and open water)? For cycling I have Garmin Edge device and for running I am using a Garmin Forerunner. It uploads everything to TrainingPeaks and calculates TSS etc.

So what do people use for swimming?

Best,
Fredrik


Personally I use a Garmin Fenix for swimming. It's nice and has a lot of data, like stroke rate, strokes per length, pace, etc. But you can get away with logging it manually and just recording a T-pace every once in a while by doing a 1000m tt. If you're not up to 1000m yet you can do another distance interval till you get there. Then use the clock on deck even to pace your sets.
2016-10-18 3:30 PM
in reply to: Meulen

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks

Originally posted by Meulen
Originally posted by fbackman Hi all, I am pretty data-driven in my training, and live under the device "if it is not logged - it did not happen". :-) From having done cycling and running, I will now add swimming and get into triathlon. The question is - how do I log my swims (pool and open water)? For cycling I have Garmin Edge device and for running I am using a Garmin Forerunner. It uploads everything to TrainingPeaks and calculates TSS etc. So what do people use for swimming? Best, Fredrik
Personally I use a Garmin Fenix for swimming. It's nice and has a lot of data, like stroke rate, strokes per length, pace, etc. But you can get away with logging it manually and just recording a T-pace every once in a while by doing a 1000m tt. If you're not up to 1000m yet you can do another distance interval till you get there. Then use the clock on deck even to pace your sets.

Ditto for me...Garmin Fenix 2.  Before I had that I just remembered what I did and logged it manually here on BT.

2016-10-18 4:19 PM
in reply to: fbackman

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks

For my swims, I use a basic Timex that has a 30 lap memory. I then manually input the info into TP. It's kind of a pain, but I'd rather do that than spend $500 on a 935xt or a Fenix.

2016-10-19 7:15 PM
in reply to: fbackman

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
I just use a running watch and the pace clock (for some sets) for swimming. I keep total swimming time on my running watch and time the various sets (but usually not warmup, cooldown, or drill sets) with the pace clock. I input the total distance and total time into Training Peaks, as well as average splits or approximate range of splits for the main set. Then any other details of the workout I want to record. TP will calculate an average pace for the workout based on total distance and total time. Of course it will vary depending on the nature of the workout. It will look pretty impressive if the main set is a bunch of hard 50's; not so much if it's a technique-focused workout or I'm doing a lot of non-freestyle stuff. I think if you want CSS (like swim TSS? This is my coach's area, not mine), you do a kind of "swim threshold test" involving 200m and 400m time trials and some kind of calculation. You can then input it and it will calculate CSS for you. I remember doing the tests and calculating but not inputting it into TP--I'd assume my coach did that.

Not sure how CSS is different from TSS. The numbers seem much lower than for running and cycling.
2016-10-20 11:51 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner


2

Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Is it not:

CSS = Critical Swim Speed (threshold value, similar to FTP for cycling)
TSS = Training Stress Score (calculated depending on how hard you train vs your CSS; and for how long)

Or am I missing something?


2016-10-20 6:49 PM
in reply to: fbackman

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Yes. CSS is like FTP for cycling. But TP yields something else ("swim TSS?") for swim workouts, and that seems low to me. No matter how long or intense the workout, it still seems low. I don't know how it's calculated but seems different than biking or running.

Sorry--no access to TP this week. I'm traveling in Laos with very slow internet speed, and the mobile app won't load properly.....Can't get into my account to see what I am talking about!
2016-10-29 6:29 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Okay--now I know what I am talking about. TP has something called sTSS that it uses for swimming. It seems a lot lower than running and cycling TSS. I looked at my last week of really hard training before tapering for Worlds and my hardest workout that week, 3500m (which took me about an hour) including 6X 400m at faster than HIM pace, with some other, faster and shorter stuff as well, had an sTSS of 4.6. By contrast, I had some harder runs in the one-hour range with TSS in the 60's; harder bike workouts in the one-hour range were in the 50's to low 60's.

In my mind, the swim workout was of similar duration and difficulty in terms of being close to or under my race paces; it seems odd that the value should be so much higher for running and cycling. I know there is some additional fatigue with bike and run due to producing more body heat (particularly here) and fighting gravity with running, but surely swimming isn't 15X easier than running and biking?!
2016-10-29 1:41 PM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Originally posted by Hot Runner

Okay--now I know what I am talking about. TP has something called sTSS that it uses for swimming. It seems a lot lower than running and cycling TSS. I looked at my last week of really hard training before tapering for Worlds and my hardest workout that week, 3500m (which took me about an hour) including 6X 400m at faster than HIM pace, with some other, faster and shorter stuff as well, had an sTSS of 4.6. By contrast, I had some harder runs in the one-hour range with TSS in the 60's; harder bike workouts in the one-hour range were in the 50's to low 60's.

In my mind, the swim workout was of similar duration and difficulty in terms of being close to or under my race paces; it seems odd that the value should be so much higher for running and cycling. I know there is some additional fatigue with bike and run due to producing more body heat (particularly here) and fighting gravity with running, but surely swimming isn't 15X easier than running and biking?!


If you are getting 4.6sTSS it's probably because your threshold pace is not properly set or your watch/you are logging incorrectly

I usually get about 80-90 sTSS for a 4000m workout. My "average pace" given by my Garmin for the workout is typically 2 or 3 seconds above threshold pace, if I do a balanced mix of 50s, 100s, 200s, 400s.

I know pros that simply put a sTSS per 1000m swam, so for example 20 per 1000m. In your case 3.5x20 = 70sTSS which probably makes sense

2016-10-29 6:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Yes, average pace (total swim time divided by total distance) for that workout was 1:43; I think my threshold (which should be on TP--maybe my coach put it in wrong or there is an issue with yards vs. meters?) is 1:41. So the average was about 2 seconds over threshold pace; the 400's would have been at threshold or a bit under (I think) as much of the rest of the workout would have been warmup, cooldown and drill sets at a slower pace. Maybe a set of 25's or 50's at faster pace as part of the pre-set. 70 would make more sense--it was a pretty hard workout. But not sure where the 20 is coming from.

Edited by Hot Runner 2016-10-29 7:03 PM
2016-10-30 1:38 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: Logging swims to TrainingPeaks
Looks like my threshold swim pace is not even entered into my account in TP, so that is probably the issue!


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