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2016-11-25 11:46 AM

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Subject: HRV- worth a read


2016-12-01 9:41 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
I am still not really a big believer in HRV, but to each their own.

For me personally. It is still much easier to identify fatigue in an athlete just be looking at them in the face and watching their movements, reactions, etc then to depend on yet another measurement tool we are still figuring out how to use. It seems like finding a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist but has easier more streamlined and proven solutions already.

I have used HRV before with out athletes, what we found it the time invested to learn everyone's patterns with HRV, gather their personal data, etc took more time then the simple eyeball test. Our sample size (10-15) was also so small that it was hard to really make any true judgments from.

If anything I would give more value to HRV for remote coaching versus in person coaching, but I use the simple tap test for that, but I could see HRV as a potential viable option.

Here is another article by Alan that highlights some things I think people forget or gloss over.

http://www.outsideonline.com/2137926/what-heart-rate-variability-an...

I think it's interesting with HRV though. Sometimes we expect technology to give us better, more accurate data when really the basics are just what we need. Problem is we as a whole always think technology can improve things, when often the case it might make things more difficult.
2016-12-01 5:06 PM
in reply to: bcagle25

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
HRV is still a relatively new technology and the interpretation of results still needs some work. But people can start to be aware of it.

Given many people are self coached or or remotely coached it does have the potential to be an excellent tool.

For the record, I believe remote coaching is a better option for a very significant proportion of people and technology can remove some of the it's challenges
2016-12-01 10:25 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
yeah....
2016-12-02 6:15 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
In my own experience (2 years monitoring daily) I think the trends are a number worth following and paying attention to, but for day to day training it is just something I'm aware of more than held to. If I hit an "off" day, I don't change my training. If I'm on an off trend, I bring it up to my coach and we see if we can't find the reason and go from there. In that way I think it's worth a lot to keep people from dipping too far into the overreaching area of training. (or at least to know that that overreaching is occurring, and closely monitor it to not let it go further towards the overtraining line.)

It's a tool, and like most tools how effective it is has a lot to do with the person using it.
2016-12-02 6:31 AM
in reply to: Leegoocrap

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
Originally posted by Leegoocrap

In my own experience (2 years monitoring daily) I think the trends are a number worth following and paying attention to, but for day to day training it is just something I'm aware of more than held to. If I hit an "off" day, I don't change my training. If I'm on an off trend, I bring it up to my coach and we see if we can't find the reason and go from there. In that way I think it's worth a lot to keep people from dipping too far into the overreaching area of training. (or at least to know that that overreaching is occurring, and closely monitor it to not let it go further towards the overtraining line.)

It's a tool, and like most tools how effective it is has a lot to do with the person using it.


100% agree. One of the mistakes people can make is not training because their app gives them a red light. Trends are what is important.

What I found with my personal data was that I could estimate a training load and rise in ATL that triggered a bad trend in HRV. So I have a better idea of how far I can go without some rest.

Some of the research being done with HRV is fascinating. As is some of the experimentation being done in other sports much more mature than triathlon.



2016-12-02 6:51 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
I considered HRV a few years ago but didn't bite the bullet. I was getting very frustrated by a tendency to get sick with respiratory viruses during taper, and thought that might help. I'd tried using resting heart rate in the past, and really didn't find it a useful metric--there was never a correlation between a higher rate and perceived fatigue or approaching illness. It would only be obviously elevated if I was actually sick or for a few days after a really hard longer race (sometimes not even then); and sometimes was 5-10 beats higher than normal when I felt fine, had strong workouts, and was not getting sick.

What concerned me about HRV was that I would get a "red light" and it would freak me out and actually just cause more stress, especially during taper, or would cause me to miss normal workouts when actually there was nothing amiss, just some random variation. Curious how often you get a "false positive", where it gives you a red light but you feel fine, and if you ignored it you actually have a good workout. Or a false negative where it says you are good to go but then you feel like crap when training, or get sick the next day.
2016-12-02 7:06 AM
in reply to: Hot Runner

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Subject: RE: HRV- worth a read
Originally posted by Hot Runner

I considered HRV a few years ago but didn't bite the bullet. I was getting very frustrated by a tendency to get sick with respiratory viruses during taper, and thought that might help. I'd tried using resting heart rate in the past, and really didn't find it a useful metric--there was never a correlation between a higher rate and perceived fatigue or approaching illness. It would only be obviously elevated if I was actually sick or for a few days after a really hard longer race (sometimes not even then); and sometimes was 5-10 beats higher than normal when I felt fine, had strong workouts, and was not getting sick.

What concerned me about HRV was that I would get a "red light" and it would freak me out and actually just cause more stress, especially during taper, or would cause me to miss normal workouts when actually there was nothing amiss, just some random variation. Curious how often you get a "false positive", where it gives you a red light but you feel fine, and if you ignored it you actually have a good workout. Or a false negative where it says you are good to go but then you feel like crap when training, or get sick the next day.



On a pretty regular basis I'll get a "red light", ignore it and have a great workout and recover just fine. For me a "red light" is no worst than sore legs. Do I skip a workout every time I have sore legs ? No. Do I worry when I have sore legs ? No. Same for HRV. But if I have a trend of unexpected numbers, I think twice about what's going on

What I found HRV to be useful for is seeing how I react to trends or specific workouts. I am now pretty good at predicting what my HRV will be. Which is an example of how something like HRV allows one to calibrate their own perception.

We are really really bad at properly assessing ourselves and sometimes technology can help.

My opinion for HRV like many areas in our sport is it's part art par science. Many people say it's one OR the other and they are unfortuntaly missing the benefit of the other side of the conversation.

But learning to filter through the false alarms without stress oneself is important. Sometimes I think there should be an HRV app that the athlete doesn't see and let their coach interpret the number
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