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2017-02-15 7:00 PM


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Subject: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
Hey all,
I've been training with TrainerRoad for about six months now. I had an FTP at 217, and went through the first six weeks of sweet spot training. After those six weeks I didn't test again, but was handling the workouts really well that I was doing, so I reset my FTP for 230.

I've been training for several more weeks now, and just did another eight minutes FTP test tonight, however only came in at 226. My pacing seemed good, my cadence was comfortable and fast, and I definitely didn't hold back as I was gassed at the end.

My question to those of you who use this program, why do I seem to be nailing the workouts with more success than what I test at?

I appreciate any feedback


2017-02-15 7:31 PM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad

It's only a few watts and sweet spot training isn't really going to take you to exhaustion. Not without doing what would be substantial amounts of it for most.

Also, if you're only doing sweet spot, you might not be quite as used to suffering with the hard efforts of over threshold, which an FTP test of any type will be. Pretty good sure, but I've tended to lack a bit of that going for broke feel with sweet spot emphasis in the past.

2017-02-15 10:07 PM
in reply to: linkslefty


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
I'd test more often, once a month. It's possible to be able to hit the sweet spot workouts even with an overstated FTP because sweet spot training doesn't really make you hurt. Have you been mixing up the sweet spot training with anything harder? Many of their plans will have days with over/unders or intervals at FTP. You've got to hurt if you're going to make real progress in upping your FTP.
2017-02-16 6:59 AM
in reply to: ziggie204

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad

Echo the comments above - SS training, while it does raise your FTP, doesn't prepare you well for FTP testing.  Then again, "acing" the FTP 20' or 2 x 8' isn't (shouldn't) exactly be an end goal for triathletes anyway.

226 vs.230 is within the margin of error for a PM anyway, especially if you are using virtual power on TR, so given you're doing OK with your workouts at that level I'd leave it at 230 or even tick it up a bit.

By the way, I HATE FTP TESTING.  Like Ben said above, it requires a certain level of "discomfort".  I typically just increase my FTP by X number of watts every training block.  Maybe I'm not totally accurate, but close enough to accomplish what I'm trying to.

2017-02-16 7:10 AM
in reply to: #5213642


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
Thanks for the feedback thus far. To answer the question, I've only been doing sweet spot workouts, as I thought I had read that that was the ideal way to increase FTP. It appears I need to be doing some more threshold and vo2 workouts, my end goal being much better bike fitness for a HIM in July.
2017-02-16 10:27 AM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad

You can make a lot of gains using it. It's just not the only thing to work on.



2017-02-16 12:07 PM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad

Originally posted by linkslefty Thanks for the feedback thus far. To answer the question, I've only been doing sweet spot workouts, as I thought I had read that that was the ideal way to increase FTP. It appears I need to be doing some more threshold and vo2 workouts, my end goal being much better bike fitness for a HIM in July.

You can make gains doing sweet spot training, but really only if you're doing a LOT of it.  And if you're a triathlete and trying to balance swimming and running, you're probably not going to be able to devote the time needed to make big gains doing sweet spot work.  Throw in some VO2 and threshold work and really learn how to suffer.  These are good even if you're training for longer events -- you can get the sweet spot / tempo work in on longer rides as you get closer to your race.

2017-02-16 12:08 PM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
My last couple FTP tests I have considered to be sub-standard and I manually adjusted my FTP as i saw fit. When i can just barely get through the harder workouts I figure I'm about right. I had my right knee scoped in December and I haven't been going above sweet spot since then as my knee I don't think is ready for harder workouts. I can get through "easy" sweet spot workouts with my old FTP, but I suspect, based on some short warm-up sprints where I hit my FTP, my FTP has dropped. The longer sweet spot workouts with limited rest I'm not sure how I would do with my current FTP setting.

When you say you are doing well with your training, are you following a specific plan? The "entry-level" sweet spot workouts aren't that hard. I started with the TR low volume HIM plan last winter. The base phase was challenging for me but manageable. The build phase nearly killed me. With the same FTP, the build workouts were WAY harder than the base phase. I hadn't worked that hard since high school cross country (in 9176). Depending on the rides you are doing, you may find that your current FTP is relatively easy for the base phase rides but the build phase rides will be another story.

In any case, keep at it. If you are new to structured training, you may be pleasantly surprised with your improvement this summer. i dropped my best HIM bike split from 2:50:41 to 2:29:37 after 7 months on TR.

I would also check out the TR podcasts. They have excellent advice.
2017-02-16 2:46 PM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad

SS is a pretty wide range, what percentage of "FTP" were the rides typically at? 

And I concur that threshold testing sucks hurts!  

2017-02-16 3:24 PM
in reply to: Donto


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
Thanks again for the feedback. I did the sweet spot training because my bike fitness was/is terrible, and I'm looking for build it up enough to put up a respectable bike leg in July and still have energy to run. Last year in my first HIM I was running the fastest I ever had going in, but the bike leg crushed me (3:17), and I still walked most of the half marathon. I was hoping to put up something close to 3 hours and still run a 2:30 half or so this year.

I've been riding harder than I was a year ago, but based on the feedback it sounds like I need to step it up another notch or two. The good news is that I have a solid 4 months ahead of me, and will have a coach to help along the way.

And agreed on all accounts, the FTP test sucks. Definitely takes me outside of my comfort zone.

If there's any more feedback, please feel free to keep it coming!
2017-02-16 3:53 PM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
226 vs 230 is very close. Tire air pressure, tension on the trainer drum, temperature of the trainer fluid etc. can easily result in a 5 Watt difference. Was you tire pressure and drum tension exactly the same?


2017-02-16 5:46 PM
in reply to: #5213676


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
For clarification, I manually picked 230 several weeks ago, I never tested at 230. I just thought after several weeks of workouts based on an ftp of 230 and doing well at them that I would test a bit higher.
2017-02-16 10:29 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
Originally posted by ligersandtions

Originally posted by linkslefty Thanks for the feedback thus far. To answer the question, I've only been doing sweet spot workouts, as I thought I had read that that was the ideal way to increase FTP. It appears I need to be doing some more threshold and vo2 workouts, my end goal being much better bike fitness for a HIM in July.

You can make gains doing sweet spot training, but really only if you're doing a LOT of it.  And if you're a triathlete and trying to balance swimming and running, you're probably not going to be able to devote the time needed to make big gains doing sweet spot work.  Throw in some VO2 and threshold work and really learn how to suffer.  These are good even if you're training for longer events -- you can get the sweet spot / tempo work in on longer rides as you get closer to your race.




This is spot on. People gravitate to sweet spot training because you can do a lot of it during a given week. Or rather, you can't do a lot of threshold work, which would be better, because you'll fry your legs. This is more for bike racers than a triathlete who is cramming in three sports each week and may only be doing 3-4 rides. For me, when I was training for triathlons, the main limiter for bike intensity was how much it would impact my run training. Could I bang out two really hard rides a week, sure, but if it ruined my ability to run the following day. . . it may not have been worth it. It's all a balancing act. If you're worried about your bike more than your run, maybe you push harder and just try to maintain run fitness.
2017-02-17 8:38 AM
in reply to: #5213761


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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
For those still reading this thread, what kind of FTP does it take on a flat course to go sub 3 hours and still be able to run most of the half marathon if the athlete is an above average runner?
2017-02-17 10:30 AM
in reply to: linkslefty

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Subject: RE: FTP Conundrum- TrainerRoad
Originally posted by linkslefty

For those still reading this thread, what kind of FTP does it take on a flat course to go sub 3 hours and still be able to run most of the half marathon if the athlete is an above average runner?


How aero you are will have a major impact on that

Look at this thread
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

A very aero person needs 120 watts to go 2h48
A very non aero person needs 165 watts to go 2h48

A very fit person can go at 80% of FTP, so if he is very fit and very aero he needs a FTP of 150w
A less fit person can go maybe 75% of FTP, so if he is very un aero he needs a FTP of 220w

There are huge differences dpending on how aero you are, how fit you are for longer distance and how accurate your FTP really is
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