General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Race intensity Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2017-02-24 11:49 AM


249
10010025
Subject: Race intensity
I'm pretty familiar with the typical training zones, like 1 through 5.

I have read a lot of discussion over time on these zones, when to be in what zone for training, how much, etc.

Without sounding like Captain Obvious, what zone do people typically race in? Is it the highest intensity output you can manage and still finish the race? I assume so, but wanted to see if anyone would offer an opinion. Over the last 2 years, I set a PR in a Sprint Tri and also a local 10K. When I was done, I was whipped. Like almost losing my lunch after the 10K, but I had "redlined it" for at least the last 2 miles. I would equate most of the race to a fitness test to determine FTP. In discussing this later with a couple runners, one of whom is an RN, I was told I went too hard if I was close to vomiting.

So....thoughts out there? I've always thought if you DNF due to pace, then you went too hard, but not if you finish.


2017-02-24 4:37 PM
in reply to: Burchib

User image

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: Race intensity

Well, it kind of depends on the race and where it falls in the season, for me.

If it's a "B" or "C" race, I wont push quite as hard, although I'll still try to give very close to 100% (but will expect a slower time, as I won't have tapered).  That said, I'll sometimes back off to more like what feels like 90% or 95% if I have a big training week the next week and don't want to jeopardize being able to hit it.

If it's an A-race and I've tapered, then I expect to cross the line shelled.  Puking is fine, as long as I don't have to slow down to do it.

I am quite sure others have a different approach, but I really enjoy the mental part of trying to figure how hard to go so I don't blow up, but have nothing left.  Easier on short course stuff, as it's full-gas-the-whole-way.  Part of why I really like Oly (and HIM to a degree, but have only done a few) distances, as there is both exertion and control at play - really messes with my pea-brain!

No matter what, I think the most important thing is to race the way that gives YOU the most enjoyment.  So, enjoy!

Matt

2017-02-24 7:40 PM
in reply to: #5214356

New user
175
100252525
Subject: RE: Race intensity
Matt's last paragraph, pretty much, says it all.
2017-02-24 8:14 PM
in reply to: Burchib

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: Race intensity

Originally posted by Burchib I'm pretty familiar with the typical training zones, like 1 through 5. I have read a lot of discussion over time on these zones, when to be in what zone for training, how much, etc. Without sounding like Captain Obvious, what zone do people typically race in? Is it the highest intensity output you can manage and still finish the race? I assume so, but wanted to see if anyone would offer an opinion. Over the last 2 years, I set a PR in a Sprint Tri and also a local 10K. When I was done, I was whipped. Like almost losing my lunch after the 10K, but I had "redlined it" for at least the last 2 miles. I would equate most of the race to a fitness test to determine FTP. In discussing this later with a couple runners, one of whom is an RN, I was told I went too hard if I was close to vomiting. So....thoughts out there? I've always thought if you DNF due to pace, then you went too hard, but not if you finish.

Intensity doesn't really relate to how spent one is, but rather the effort level in relation to a common standard. Like FTP. An FTP test is shorter than the 1 hr or so one can spend at FTP, so the intensity will be higher (over 100%) even though one can go to exhaustion in both.

For races, most of the time it's best to keep up a pretty steady effort and try to get that point of exhaustion right about the finish line (since it seems like intensity at one's best effort is the intent here). So the longer the race is, the lower the intensity will be. With that, pretty much everyone will have a sprint well into Z4. An Oly near the Z3/Z4 pt with faster people possibly getting some more into Z4. HIM is Z3 for most though the fastest can get to Z4. IM is Z2 for the majority with the fastest getting into Z3.

Something could be missing from the 10k description, but the RN's statement, as relayed here, is off. A 10k can certainly burn like crazy, but actually vomiting would seem to indicate something being off. Not impossible, but probability here. Higher intensity work, maybe starting at least in Z5, is more where vomiting is a bit more likely to happen. Unless there is something else going on upsetting the stomach. If pace did not fall off towards the end you didn't go too hard. It is possible that the earlier miles were paced too easy though, and then really picked it up later? Pushing the intensity up into the higher regions. Or perhaps not enough experience with that substantial internal burning to recognize when things may reverse course?

2017-02-25 12:43 AM
in reply to: Burchib

User image

Veteran
2297
2000100100252525
Great White North
Subject: RE: Race intensity
Puked at the end of my T60/5k swim. In that case I went a little hard on the last 50m. 59:52.77 for 5000m
2017-02-25 9:24 AM
in reply to: #5214397

User image

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: Race intensity
Ben's spot-on wrt what intensity actually refers, and how the zones often relate to effort in a race of different distances. A much better description than my reference to how it feels...

What's tricky for many, I think, is that it can take quite a few races and some careful attention/effort during training to know what your true zones are across a season. It takes practice and dedication to test often, hard and "correctly" enough to get good zone definitions across the three disciplines - each of which can vary in a training cycle depending on focus (more so than with single discipline sports). Then it takes some racing experience to know just where in your range you're able to race for a discipline/distance combo. Then there's still following your gut a little if the day is going well or poorly relative to plan!

I know just figuring some of that out was a challenge for me the first couple seasons (parts still are) and is a big part of why I like tri. Easy to get it wrong, so it's that much more satisfying when it actually goes right.

Not everyone likes that level of effort, attention or analysis, though. My "style" of training and racing varies by season and even within a season, depending on feel and other priorities - all about what's the most fun/rewarding at that time.

Ok, too much coffee/rambling/procrastinating about my trainer ride for one morning!

Matt


2017-02-25 12:22 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

User image

Expert
2852
20005001001001002525
Pfafftown, NC
Subject: RE: Race intensity
You guys are spot-on.....and it's good reading. I did 5 sprints, an OLY (International) and 2 HIM's last year. For me, I figured I'd go balls to the wall on anything up to the HIM distance. That worked out for all but the last HIM......but, it was sheer luck on my part. The first HIM was in ideal conditions....topping out about 82 deg. I didn't have a power meter, then, so I biked on RPE and HR (set a max for myself). It worked out great.

I got the PM. I tested my FTP. I trained, based on said FTP......and I went to Augusta thinking I'd ride at 80% of that (because.....that's what people running HIM's do...who have PM's).

After a gimme swim (downstream), I flatted at mi. 2.5. I was so flustered, trying to get a new tube ...into a new tire.....onto a new disk...that it took me FOREVER to change the thing. Oh...did I mention it was 94 degrees and I was in the next-to-last swim wave? Now, I look at my Garmin when I get the flat fixed and my HR is 171. Instead of adjusting for the heat and my state of panic, I rode the course at a little ABOVE my 80%. Fine ride. Everything's great!

Mi. 6 of the run is when it caught up with me. Worst 7.2 mi. of my life. The smarts needed to kick in and they didn't. First time I've been in distress. Hopefully, I've learned from it. You have to be willing to adjust.
2017-02-25 2:07 PM
in reply to: Burchib

User image

Veteran
495
100100100100252525
Calgary
Subject: RE: Race intensity
Why was the other runner saying that you were going too hard if you felt like vomiting?
1. Because racing isn't important enough to subject yourself to feeling yucky? or
2. Because if you feel like that and you might hurt yourself or harm your health? or
3. Because it means your pacing is off and this will adversely affect your time?

I think 1. is a matter of personal preference. Different people are looking for different race experiences.
I don't believe that 2 is true if you are healthy and have your doctor's okay to race.
I think your question mainly deals with pacing. If you felt like vomiting early in the race and your running got significantly slower in the 2nd half of the race then you probably went too hard early in the race.

If I maintain a running speed that I'm happy with, and finish feeling totally spent then I tend to feel that my pacing and intensity were in the right ballpark.

Don

2017-02-25 5:37 PM
in reply to: Burchib

User image

Pro
5892
5000500100100100252525
, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: Race intensity
It depends on two things... First, what type of race is it, A -race, B race or a C race. Second, what is the race distance. For a A Sprint race, I go all out, hoping not to puke before the finish line and quite often, I'm completely cross eyed when I'm done. It's pretty much all out from the start.

For a B race, I will go hard, but I'm not going 100%, usually somewhere around 90% of max.

For an Olympic, I can't go that hard or I'll choke before finishing. I need to stay in the 85-90% range (depending on the type of race).

On top of that, you need to know your strengths and weakness' and how those play to the course. For example, for a hilly bike course, I will go extra hard, sacrificing a bit on the run. If the course if flat, then I will save a bit more for the run. Just happens to be how I race the best.
2017-02-26 11:29 AM
in reply to: audiojan


249
10010025
Subject: RE: Race intensity
Thanks everyone. I've learned a lot from your thoughts/opinions!
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Race intensity Rss Feed  
RELATED POSTS

Race Schedule Intensity/Frequency

Started by we.not.i
Views: 761 Posts: 2

2012-02-29 2:33 PM colinphillips

Base building & higher intensity

Started by KathyG
Views: 1146 Posts: 19

2005-10-13 2:28 PM jvinciqu

training intensity question

Started by saunaking
Views: 608 Posts: 3

2005-06-07 9:55 PM saunaking

Rest: Better completely off or low intensity workout?

Started by lablover
Views: 745 Posts: 6

2005-03-08 8:59 AM lablover

intensity on recovery week?

Started by DulcimerDoc
Views: 697 Posts: 3

2004-06-23 1:37 AM DulcimerDoc
RELATED ARTICLES
date : August 7, 2007
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
After finishing a sprint triathlon I ate a large meal and about 8 hours later I became very ill with chills, fever and diarrhea. I attributed it to food poisoning but it happened again after a brick.
 
date : March 6, 2007
author : gsmacleod
comments : 6
A comparison between two athletes and their results based on a high intensity vs a low intensity program.
date : July 30, 2006
author : Amy Kuitse
comments : 0
You ask yourself if a couple of months will be enough time to prepare for that sprint; and how must swim training change in volume and intensity for the longer distances?
 
date : May 1, 2006
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
This month I upped my bike time a lot but at relatively low intensity and I started experiencing pain on the outside lower part of my knee. It did not affect anything other than cycling.
date : January 29, 2006
author : Rich Strauss
comments : 2
The most valuable thing you can do for your endurance training is to schedule a weekly 2-4hr long ride from now until the end of time. Simply make this “what you do” every Saturday or Sunday morning.
 
date : July 17, 2005
author : AMSSM
comments : 1
If a training program increases in intensity too quickly, or does not include enough time for recovery, injury can result.
date : May 16, 2005
author : AMSSM
comments : 0
Discussions on base training, intensity training, peaking and tapering, racing and competition and recovery and restoration.
 
date : January 30, 2005
author : Glenn
comments : 0
Many of us do not enjoy the ‘pleasures’ of training on a stationery trainer. “Boring”, ”mind-numbing”, “a drag” are three phrases often associated with indoor trainers.