General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Breathing in Aero Rss Feed  
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2017-03-15 5:19 PM

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Subject: Breathing in Aero
Finally broke down and bought a tri bike in December. Been riding indoors on trainer 2-3 times per week. It is a Felt B2 and I had it fitted by the best fitter in my city. I would not consider myself obese nor do I have some huge beer gut, but I find when I ride, I feel like I can't catch my breath. My HR is in mid-Z2 and I am otherwise in very good health and have been training for years. I have to sit up every couple minutes to get a full breath of air (almost like I am yawning).

Does this go away?

Edited by scottficek 2017-03-15 5:20 PM


2017-03-15 5:29 PM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
I've only had this issue when my lung capacity is somehow less than normal--occasionally if I'm sick (or more likely getting over something--don't usually train when I'm really sick), having asthma problems from a recent illness or allergies, or, in one case, riding with badly bruised ribs. I do notice at those times that it is harder to breathe in aero. Not at other times. Also don't recall that from when I first started riding in aero--have always been fine as long as I am healthy. You might want to mention the issue to your bike fitter--could just be some quirk of your anatomy that makes your rib cage less "compressible" than some--and see what he can do. It sounds like maybe you could be "down" a bit too aggressively, and that's compressing your lungs and rib cage.

Or check if there might be some medical issue like asthma. But I think you would notice the latter, though maybe less seriously, when doing other activities upright.
2017-03-15 6:25 PM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero

My first thought was a closed hip angle.  When it gets too closed you can't expand your lungs like you would do normally.  You might need to work down to the fitter's recommended stack height over time...you can do this by adding some spacers up front and then remove them over time. Shorter cranks might help to open up the hips too...that would involve adjustments to your seat height and set back.

Also, make sure you have a fan blowing on you for anything other than easy spinning.

Other than that, I'd say keep plugging.  There's an adjustment period to riding in aero.  It seems easier outside than inside (at least for me).

2017-03-15 9:04 PM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
I agree with what others have posted. It may take a bit more time to get used to that position. Another factor that can affect breathing is how close the aero bars are to one another. I run mine a bit wider for this very reason.
2017-03-16 5:53 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero

Out of curiosity, how much drop do you have between the top of your seat and pads ?
2017-03-16 7:19 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero

Originally posted by marcag Out of curiosity, how much drop do you have between the top of your seat and pads ?

Marc raises a great first question.

The second question is how are you sitting on the saddle?  Are you trying to keep your sit bones on it the way you would a road bike (flexing your spine/ rounding your back), or are you rolling your pelvis forward so you're on your perineum (anteriorly tilting your pelvis/more neutral spine position/flattening your back)?

Most people are best served by rolling their pelvis so they're on their perineum instead.  When you flex your spine to simultaneously get into the aerobars and keep your sit bones on the saddle, it reduces the amount of space for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.  Rolling your pelvis forward to keep your spine closer to neutral allows more room for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.

This is also why split nose saddles have become so popular in triathlon.  It reduces the pressure on the perineum and makes it less likely for your "junk" to go numb.

Edited to add:  Even with a great fit, the benefits of it can be reduced if the athlete doesn't know how to sit on a TT bike.

 



Edited by TriMyBest 2017-03-16 7:21 AM


2017-03-16 8:20 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero

Good advice already from others.

There is a transition period of getting body comfortable with the Tri bike. I thought I made a huge mistake after the first few rides on my Tri bike. Now my road bike fells weird when I ride it.

That being said. I can stay in Aero all day long on the road on my Tri bike but find it more difficult on when I'm on my trainer for long periods of time. I would be interested in how you feel once you do some training on the roads as opposed to the trainer.
2017-03-16 11:00 AM
in reply to: GODAWGS

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Agree with others on this topic as mentioned prior. Personally the split nose saddle allowed for me to better feel how I should be in aero and minimized the initial discomfort I was otherwise feeling.
2017-03-16 11:33 AM
in reply to: TriMyBest

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by marcag Out of curiosity, how much drop do you have between the top of your seat and pads ?

Marc raises a great first question.

The second question is how are you sitting on the saddle?  Are you trying to keep your sit bones on it the way you would a road bike (flexing your spine/ rounding your back), or are you rolling your pelvis forward so you're on your perineum (anteriorly tilting your pelvis/more neutral spine position/flattening your back)?

Most people are best served by rolling their pelvis so they're on their perineum instead.  When you flex your spine to simultaneously get into the aerobars and keep your sit bones on the saddle, it reduces the amount of space for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.  Rolling your pelvis forward to keep your spine closer to neutral allows more room for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.

This is also why split nose saddles have become so popular in triathlon.  It reduces the pressure on the perineum and makes it less likely for your "junk" to go numb.

Edited to add:  Even with a great fit, the benefits of it can be reduced if the athlete doesn't know how to sit on a TT bike.

 




I was going to say post a video, but I thought that would create more confusion than anything.

For the OP's research, I think you are referring pelvic tilit which not only will affect your breathing but also your muscle recruitment in a rather significant way. But since he said "the best fitter in town" I assumed this was addressed which isn't 90% of the time.
2017-03-16 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by TriMyBest

Originally posted by marcag Out of curiosity, how much drop do you have between the top of your seat and pads ?

Marc raises a great first question.

The second question is how are you sitting on the saddle?  Are you trying to keep your sit bones on it the way you would a road bike (flexing your spine/ rounding your back), or are you rolling your pelvis forward so you're on your perineum (anteriorly tilting your pelvis/more neutral spine position/flattening your back)?

Most people are best served by rolling their pelvis so they're on their perineum instead.  When you flex your spine to simultaneously get into the aerobars and keep your sit bones on the saddle, it reduces the amount of space for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.  Rolling your pelvis forward to keep your spine closer to neutral allows more room for your diaphragm to move and lungs to expand.

This is also why split nose saddles have become so popular in triathlon.  It reduces the pressure on the perineum and makes it less likely for your "junk" to go numb.

Edited to add:  Even with a great fit, the benefits of it can be reduced if the athlete doesn't know how to sit on a TT bike.

 

I was going to say post a video, but I thought that would create more confusion than anything. For the OP's research, I think you are referring pelvic tilit which not only will affect your breathing but also your muscle recruitment in a rather significant way. But since he said "the best fitter in town" I assumed this was addressed which isn't 90% of the time.

I agree completely.  Yes, I'm talking about pelvic tilt, or what's also called pelvic bias.  It has an impact on spinal alignment, then breathing and muscle recruitment, like you mention.  I'd have to search for video to illustrate it, as I don't have one personally.  Because of the limitations of communicating on a message board rather than seeing him in person, I asked whether he was on his sit bones or perineum.  That can give a good indication of whether the pelvis is tilted to the posterior or anterior, providing a clue about whether this is contributing to the breathing problems.

Because I don't know the OP, nor their fitter, I felt like I couldn't assume that their fitter covered how to sit on the bike.  The ones I send athletes to cover it, but I suspect we've all seen people who had a fit from "the best fitter in town" that left a lot to be desired.

 



Edited by TriMyBest 2017-03-16 2:40 PM
2017-03-16 7:21 PM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Fitter was well recommended by a couple Kona qualifiers and trainers in Minneapolis. Doesn't sell bikes, only does fittings. Been doing it for 15+ years.

He did not mention anything about the how to sit. This thread is very interesting. I will try the ideas about pelvic position and report back.

I did also contact him and he booked me into a follow up appointment this next week. I sent him some pictures of the aero bars and stem for a refresher. Mentioned something about replacing the stem with a taller one and/or adjusting the angle of the aero bars.


2017-03-17 3:44 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Originally posted by scottficek

Fitter was well recommended by a couple Kona qualifiers and trainers in Minneapolis. Doesn't sell bikes, only does fittings. Been doing it for 15+ years.

He did not mention anything about the how to sit. This thread is very interesting. I will try the ideas about pelvic position and report back.

I did also contact him and he booked me into a follow up appointment this next week. I sent him some pictures of the aero bars and stem for a refresher. Mentioned something about replacing the stem with a taller one and/or adjusting the angle of the aero bars.


Angling of the bars : interesting. A buddy of mine had trouble breathing when we put him more in a "praying mantis" position. He couldn't breath. He didn't want to figure out why since it tested slower. But that may be a route to explore.

Sounds like he is on top of it and I hope it didn't appear as if we were questioning the fitter. The fact he does follow ups, adjusts after some time in the saddle is great. It's the way it should be done. Fitting isn't a single day thing. It's a process.

But I am curious about how much drop you have :-)
2017-03-17 8:12 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
If I measured it correctly, it is 1.75 inches from back of seat (seat nose is slightly angled down) to bottom of pads where your elbows/forearms would sit.

I also peddled in the aero position and felt like my back was flat and I was laying more on privates than sitting on my sit bones. Very different sitting than on my road bike. One reply mentioned it should feel like I am almost laying on a couch and my position could be described as that.

I do have a split seat if that is relevant to discussion.
2017-03-17 8:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero


Sounds like he is on top of it and I hope it didn't appear as if we were questioning the fitter. The fact he does follow ups, adjusts after some time in the saddle is great. It's the way it should be done. Fitting isn't a single day thing. It's a process.



I am not a bike guy so no worries about questioning the fitter. I suspect there are many poor ones out there. I don't know what I don't know about riding, bikes, fitting, etc!

Edited by scottficek 2017-03-17 8:17 AM
2017-03-17 8:43 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Originally posted by scottficek

Finally broke down and bought a tri bike in December. Been riding indoors on trainer 2-3 times per week. It is a Felt B2 and I had it fitted by the best fitter in my city. I would not consider myself obese nor do I have some huge beer gut, but I find when I ride, I feel like I can't catch my breath. My HR is in mid-Z2 and I am otherwise in very good health and have been training for years. I have to sit up every couple minutes to get a full breath of air (almost like I am yawning).

Does this go away?


I didn't see it mentioned, but how close together are your elbows? If they're too close together, and you're not that flexible, you could be constricting your torso. Just a thought.
2017-03-20 3:25 PM
in reply to: d00d

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Is this the first time with aerobars, or did you have clip-ons with your roadie? As you already mentioned, getting some spacers to raise the bars a bit might help with your breathing or at least help get accustomed to the position. I also have asthma, but I honestly do think I ever had any breathing issues in the aero position after getting set up.


--
Dave


2017-03-21 9:28 PM
in reply to: davetib

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
**Update**

Saw the fitter today. He replaced my stem with a new one that was probably 1" higher. Raised my seat maybe 1/4" and angled my aerobars up slightly. Just getting on it in his shop is felt so much better. I will report back after I have some time on it.

He spent probably 30 minutes adjusting everything (this was my 3rd appointment with him in 4 months-initial, follow up, then this). I only had to pay the $35 for the new stem. If you are in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, I would recommend him in a heartbeat for his work and his customer service.
2017-03-22 5:13 AM
in reply to: scottficek

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Subject: RE: Breathing in Aero
Originally posted by scottficek
If I measured it correctly, it is 1.75 inches from back of seat (seat nose is slightly angled down) to bottom of pads where your elbows/forearms would sit.



Originally posted by scottficek
He replaced my stem with a new one that was probably 1" higher. Raised my seat maybe 1/4" and angled my aerobars up slightly.



So it sounds like you have 1" drop right now ? Comfort is king. But you probably want to work on position over time because at 1" you are most likely overcoming a lot more drag than you need to. But fit is a process, you don't get there overnight

Here is an article from one of the best fitters in the business
https://www.cervelo.com/en/engineering-field-notes/rider-discomfort-...
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