United Ariline

Here's the true story. I work for United. First off, when you board a United Express flight, you are not flying an aircraft that is operated, crewed or maintained by United Airlines. They are all contracted to operate the routes that United owns. I don't know the specific carrier used in this debacle, but we use Skywest, GoJet, Chattaqua, Republic and many other to move the bulk of our domestic passenger traffic throughout our system. The airlines save tons of money because regional carriers are training grounds for pilots. These guys typically start around 18K a year; compare that to a senior United captain making over 200K. Maintenance, ramp and even the gate agents can be contracted out by each of these particular carriers to the lowest bidder. However, being that this occurred in Chicago, I am almost 100 percent sure that United Airlines was staffing the operational needs of this flight. Unfortunately, Chicago does mean United employees and not ex-Continental like you would find along the old Continental hub/route structure. They are ruder and exponentially less competent than their ex-Con counterparts, systemwide. I sound a tad bitter to have been caught up in a merger this late in my career don't I?

Anyways, they operate these Express flights at capacity damned near systemwide and in most cases they do oversell and deny boarding quite often. Make that all the time if the truth be told. Even by offering these passengers 1K compensation each to get the deadheading crew downline, they can still make a profit, thus it has become an acceptable part of the United business model. This has also become the norm for all the other carriers that are flying their pax on subcontracted airlines too, we aren't the only boogeyman in the skies! When I travel with my family for a vacation that includes non-refundable lodging or say, a cruise, we buy tickets, on Southwest. Even though it may cost me more to fly WN than it would for me to buy positive space discounted airfare on UA, I pay the extra money. I avoid the overselling on the barbiejet carriers, the weight restrictions during summer months and I don't have to deal with contract employees who really don't give a chit whether I get to where Im going or not. Ive actually had this very conversation with our new CEO Oscar Munoz. It did appear that for a brief period last year, we were buying more 737 aircraft to get away from subcontracting baribiejet traffic, but sadly, the lure of bigger profits has led upper mgmt and the board of directors to take us back down the rabbit hole. I hope this event fiscally destroys United Airlines for a quarter or two. We deserve it.

Edited by mdg2003 2017-04-11 10:14 AM

I should also explain the deadheading crew thing. Apparently this crew was late to the gate, reasons unexplained why to date. Probably a late inbound connection. That is why the plane was already boarded and the scene occurred inside the plane and not in the gate area. Had it occurred in the boarding lobby, the visuals would have been manageable. Everyone in the area would have just seen one guy throwing a fit and yelling at the gate agents. Everyone would have just assumed, " Hey, another drunk a-hole or guy just being a jerk." Again, manageable from a PR point of view. This is also part of the United business model and how the scenario is supposed to play out when it happens. Getting deadheading crews downline is critical because they were going to Louisville to operate another flight. Most likely they were taking over the airplane and bringing it back to ORD, or replacing a crew that is timed out. Many reasons to deadhead crews. Pulling 4 people off one flight, paying them 1K bucks and guaranteeing them a seat the next day is cheaper for the company than cancelling an entire flight and stranding an aircraft at an out station like Louisville. Losing that one aircraft creates a rippling domino effect throughout the system. This is why bad weather and cancellations at one hub, due to weather, can disrupt operations worldwide for major carriers.

When the company puts an employee on a positive space business ticket, they have priority over a paying passenger. It is that important for the operation. I've actually been on a flight to SFO for training and the plane encountered a weight restriction situation. Operating these barbiejets at the limits of their mission design makes this a pretty common occurrence in hot weather or high altitude stations. We were already boarded and they realized we were 100 lbs over weight. The agent made an announcement offering 400 bucks and guaranteed seating on the next flight out and someone took the money. I went to training before a paying passenger flew.

Thanks for the inside information!

Who decided $800 was/is the maximum they would offer? I used to fly a lot for business and I 'might' have take the $800.....'probably' would have take $1,000 and definitely would have taken $1,500.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4CizzE-zZo

Edited by spudone 2017-04-11 12:24 PM

I'm not so sure they are on solid 'legal' grounds. From what I've read the contract for the tickets applies to the flight being oversold to other passengers and does not address being bumped by a flight crew.

Not that it matters.....there won't be a criminal charge....but rest assured there will be a civil case. He will walk away with 20 million.


BTW, a lot of companies contract stuff out specifically to reduce their own liability. Cruise ships have a doctor and nurses but they don't work for the cruise line, they are contactors. If something goes wrong, it's makes it harder to sue the deep pockets of the cruise line.

For future reference... if you ever see me running for the bathroom of an airliner crying that I want to go home... stay clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y8HdeHtOJs, gotta love Kimmel!

Legally, I'm pretty sure they can bump anyone from flying for whatever reason. I know it stated that on the back of the old paper tickets. Not just United, but this applies to all airlines. However, this guy can plan on early retirement. He will sue and United will settle to make this go away. Downside... he's going to have to get in line and play the waiting game. They won't settle until after 2025 and conditions set in the settlement will be non-disclosure clausage (yes, I made that word up) and he won't be allowed to discuss anything with the press. It will be settled out and we won't ever hear of this once the media hoopla dies down.

Don't worry about Oscar. He's brilliant when it comes to PR, specially when it pertains to him. He's in full damage control and has issued several statements to us on this subject today alone . They are already conducting studies to figure out how to never allow this to happen again and still maintain profitability. The answer is simple and every single person who works here (below the manager level) can solve this one if they would just ask us and then work on the logistics of making that solution happen. Unfortunately this would require actual managerial problem solving skills at VP and higher levels. Problem solving is not a highly sought after trait/skill in airline management personnel.

Sad to report that our customers are acting like children as a result of the fiasco last week. I've spoken with our local gate agents and thru flight crews. A good percentage of our customers are actively bating and trying to get into confrontations with agents and crew members. Lots of unreasonable demands are being made for no apparent reason and everyone is asking for some form of compensation at the slightest hint of any inconvenience. One of our local guys had a customer say, "please don't hit me or kick me off the flight, but do have the correct time?"

The company has pretty much opened the checkbook and told the agents and crew to do what it takes to placate our customers. Even the ones that are being unreasonable for no good reason. Tons of work being done to un**** this pig and make sure it never happens again. Sadly, there will be another incident and most likely it will be caused by one of these passengers goading agents or crew until sufficient conflict has been stirred to make a damning one sided video.

You are correct. It would count towards duty time. Plus, they do require them to be seated before take off and landing. Barbie jets do not have 4 extra jump seats installed. Even our 737s only have extra seating for two in the back and one in the cockpit.

Lots of stuff gets broken. One of the most vivid memories happened back in the late 80s when we were Continental and at that time, a pretty crappy airline! The rampers unloaded this long box, about 15' long, from one of the bins of an inbound Mexico flight. They proceeded put the box on top of the bag cart because it was so long. Fast forward, ramper takes off to deliver bags to baggage claim and the long box comes sliding off the top of the cart. Inside was a 12'+ black marlin that was being delivered from taxidermy shop in Mexico. The marlin shoots out of the box, breaks in two pieces and skids into an oncoming fuel truck, only to get crushed! I watched the guys pick up the pieces, stuff them back into the box and proceed to the bag belt with the carnage. I would have loved to have been there to see the exchange the customer had with the baggage claim agent.