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2017-05-23 10:47 AM

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Champion
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Subject: Manchester Attack
22+ dead, 59 wounded, 12+ children wounded......

The older I get the more I try to find reason/logic in the world and ISIS/Radical Islam just confounds me. I understand they hate infidels and want us all converted to Islam or dead but you have to wonder what is their big picture or game plan?

Our church, like many Christians churches sends mission trips out to various places around the world. We are sending a group people to poor villages in Honduras and they will build houses and infrastructure in the village.......and while they are there, they will preach a little gospel.....sell a couple bottle of Dr Good. (sorry, sometimes I just break out into song). The idea is by helping others we can spread the 'good news' of salvation.

When I see Islam (radical) killing innocent people I think they are just stupid or brainwashed....and maybe both. Clearly actions like this do not win over ANY hearts and minds to their cause. Exactly the opposite happens. Even people who try to defend Islam find it harder to defend. Can they not comprehend that attacks like this just strengthens the resolve of your enemy. You aren't winning the war or advancing your cause! Why would you want to kill innocent people? Do they think killing 22 people will 'terrify' the world? Do they think that if they can terrify the world they can then rule the world? Or terrify the world and win people over to (radical) Islam? Are they really that stupid?

Trump said something in a resent speech that I have been saying for years. The ONLY way the world will defeat radical Islam is for Islam to defeat radical Islam.



2017-05-23 9:09 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
I just don't feel like i have anything to say about strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up people enjoying the night at a concert. I don't have any understanding of that. That's not human.
2017-05-24 8:45 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
Originally posted by Left Brain

I just don't feel like i have anything to say about strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up people enjoying the night at a concert. I don't have any understanding of that. That's not human.


Some Christians believe this might be a form of demonic procession.

I don't know what you call it but people can be brainwashed....not sure that is the correct term.....indoctrinated.....duped...into believing almost anything. They become so convinced that what they are being told is 100% correct that all reason goes out the window. Look at the Jim Jones following....and the Waco commune. I think these suicide bombers actually think they are serving the greater good. They think their value in the afterlife depends on how they serve allah and what they are willing to do for allah.

The only way to stop this suicide indoctrination is at the source. Someone is teaching this garbage! It's not being done in caves and compounds...it's being done in masques by leaders in Islam. They know who they are! They need to stop this sort of teaching!!

The Westboro Baptist church is an example of how people can be brainwashed into believing garbage and thinking they are serving God. They may call themselves Baptist but they are not part of any sort of Baptist organization and they are universally denounced. But there is little the 'good Christians' can do to stop these nut cases.

But that is because we live in the land of the free! Other societies, like Saudi Arabia, have no qualms about controlling religious teaching.


Well, obviously I don't have an solutions. My redneck nature says we should treat all Muslims with suspicion until we know they are not the 'radical' kind. In countries that refuse to stop the radicalization of Muslims, we should nuke 'em till they glow and shoot 'em in the dark! So far the State Department has not called me soliciting my opinions....prolly a good thing.

2017-05-24 2:36 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

Master
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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack

Long article but a good read here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

It discusses psychopaths and their key attributes being a complete lack of empathy and callousness.

I suspect terror cells, either intuitively or deliberately, end up recruiting people like this because they can easily be molded to do things that the rest of us find incomprehensible.

2017-05-24 3:32 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
Originally posted by spudone

Long article but a good read here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

It discusses psychopaths and their key attributes being a complete lack of empathy and callousness.

I suspect terror cells, either intuitively or deliberately, end up recruiting people like this because they can easily be molded to do things that the rest of us find incomprehensible.




OMG, that was scary chit! I'm gonna have nightmares tonight of being suffocated by a 6 yo girl!

The human mind is so complex......I guess there are many things that can and do go wrong and stuff get 'wired' up wrong.
2017-05-24 3:58 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: Manchester Attack

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by spudone

Long article but a good read here:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

It discusses psychopaths and their key attributes being a complete lack of empathy and callousness.

I suspect terror cells, either intuitively or deliberately, end up recruiting people like this because they can easily be molded to do things that the rest of us find incomprehensible.

OMG, that was scary chit! I'm gonna have nightmares tonight of being suffocated by a 6 yo girl! The human mind is so complex......I guess there are many things that can and do go wrong and stuff get 'wired' up wrong.

Yeah for sure.  And when someone like that is an adult and *knows*, intellectually, that what they are doing is wrong, but still feels pleasure from doing it -- that can lead them to suicidal thoughts.  Which just adds to the recipe for disaster.



2017-05-25 2:21 PM
in reply to: #5221040

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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
With an estimated 1.6 billion worldwide, only Muslims can really fix(police ) their own. Hopefully, one day they will.
2017-05-25 2:32 PM
in reply to: goforit

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
Originally posted by goforit

With an estimated 1.6 billion worldwide, only Muslims can really fix(police ) their own. Hopefully, one day they will.


Good article on this.

http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/23/trump-tells-muslim-world-to-sto...

2017-05-25 4:19 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Deep in the Heart of Texas
Subject: RE: Manchester Attack

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by goforit With an estimated 1.6 billion worldwide, only Muslims can really fix(police ) their own. Hopefully, one day they will.
Good article on this. http://thefederalist.com/2017/05/23/trump-tells-muslim-world-to-sto...

While I  agree with President Trump's basic message that the Muslims need to be the solution to the problems of radical Islam, I have zero faith that it will happen.  The Middle East is much too complicated and broke for that.  Here is a good, albeit depressing, article that summarizes the problems in the Muslim world--Barbarians within Our Gates.  The Muslim world is essentially in a civil war between the Shia (Iran/Syria) and the Sunni (Saudi Arabia/ISIS/Al Qaeda).  Although, right now it might seem that Saudi Arabia is the best side to be on, I think that is misguided thinking at best.  No way I support arming Saudi Arabia with $100 billion worth of weapons. 

2017-05-26 11:57 AM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack

There are really two forms of Islam and they interpret the Quran drastically different.  The Quran does instruct quite clearly that followers are to murder any nonbelievers.  ISIS and many followers of Islam believe this and obviously there are many who practice it.

We then have what I called "westernized Islam" where believers take the more militant terms as abstract stories and not literal instructions to follow.  This is the Islam that the vast majority of us see every day in the West.  I have several friends who are very vocal supporters of Islam because the form of Islam they know and practice is not violent in any way.  I too support them.

As was mentioned earlier one potential fix is to educate the more literal followers of Islam to the point of eradicating the belief of Jihad being the way to eternal paradise.  It sounds easy on the surface, but it quite literally involves teaching people that the Quran is wrong and that's not an easy task.  An equivalent argument for Christianity would be the movement to soften the Biblical laws to allow for sexual immorality and other such acts because in our day and age we're more "enlightened" than those of thousands of years ago.  That's going over like a pregnant pole vaulter in the the Christian church and it likely would be the same in the literal believing Muslim churches.

As for people blowing themselves up, they truly believe they're doing the will of God and sacrificing their life for the faith.  I wish I could excuse it away as mental illness, but many of these people are very intelligent and educated people.  They, are just sucked into a religion that's convinced them that martyrdom is the best path to eternal glory.  
I wish I could find it, but there was a picture of a FB live feed from a terrorist attack last year on Al Jazira and it was almost 90% hearts and likes which was pretty telling about how that part of the world feels about Jihad and martyrdom.  There is a small percentage of folks blowing themselves up, but there's a much bigger support structure than I think any of us realize. 

 

2017-05-26 9:02 PM
in reply to: #5221172

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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack
Well said Tony, and unfortunately,i i agree.


2017-05-27 11:33 AM
in reply to: goforit

Master
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Subject: RE: Manchester Attack

As for people blowing themselves up, they truly believe they're doing the will of God and sacrificing their life for the faith.  I wish I could excuse it away as mental illness, but many of these people are very intelligent and educated people.

You can be any combination of those or all three.  I wasn't trying to say that the mental aspect is the only cause, just at a higher level trying to point out to Rog that there are folks out there for which logic (to us) does not apply.

On the religious aspect, I think Islam is probably heading towards a reformation much like Christianity had in the 15-1600s.  With Islam, it might've already been done if there wasn't such a large amount of outside intervention from superpowers.

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