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2017-07-08 11:03 AM

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Subject: Swim Training
I'm just starting to get into triathlons after a shoulder injury from rugby resulting in surgery. I really enjoyed recovery with swimming and running and decided I'm too old to keep playing contact sports. So, I picked up triathlon training. I haven't done any races and it's been a long time since I swam competitively as a youth, but I still have a relatively solid stroke. I can pace 100 yards about 1:30 with every two stroke breaths. I actually drop to every 1:35 if I breathe every 3 because of my comfort breathing on one side and drop down to 1:25 if I'm every 4th stroke. However, my HR always elevates an extra 10-15 bpm compared to my every 2 stroke breathing over a 500 yard swim. I know it will take more practice to control my breathing but I'm curious if should worry more about keeping my HR low and my body fresh for the rest of the events? I have an OD planned this month and HIM 2 months after that. My distances are all on track overall but I'm just trying to be uber competitive and maximize my current potential.


2017-07-08 4:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Swim Training
Triathlon is an endurance event. Oxygen is your friend in an endurance event; don't deprive yourself of it, especially early in the race. IE, breath every 2 strokes. But you need to work on getting comfortable breathing to that other side because there are going to be times in a race where you need to breath that way (waves, etc).

I dabble a little in triathlon, but mostly do competitive swimming. On any swim race longer than 100 yards, I'm breathing every 2 strokes. I sometimes breath two strokes in a row coming into a wall on a race 400M or longer.

If you're 5 seconds a hundred slower breathing every 2 than 4, you probably need to have someone look at your stroke. You must be doing something that's creating a lot of drag when you breath. Or really hanging up there, losing a lot of momentum. More typical would be something in the 1-2 second range.

Edited by gary p 2017-07-08 4:51 PM
2017-07-09 4:05 PM
in reply to: jnuger

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Subject: RE: Swim Training

Originally posted by jnuger I'm just starting to get into triathlons after a shoulder injury from rugby resulting in surgery. I really enjoyed recovery with swimming and running and decided I'm too old to keep playing contact sports. So, I picked up triathlon training. I haven't done any races and it's been a long time since I swam competitively as a youth, but I still have a relatively solid stroke. I can pace 100 yards about 1:30 with every two stroke breaths. I actually drop to every 1:35 if I breathe every 3 because of my comfort breathing on one side and drop down to 1:25 if I'm every 4th stroke. However, my HR always elevates an extra 10-15 bpm compared to my every 2 stroke breathing over a 500 yard swim. I know it will take more practice to control my breathing but I'm curious if should worry more about keeping my HR low and my body fresh for the rest of the events? I have an OD planned this month and HIM 2 months after that. My distances are all on track overall but I'm just trying to be uber competitive and maximize my current potential.

To the bolded - your cardio-vascular system is doing more with less - you're swimming faster with less oxygen - so it's to be expected your HR will go up.

As to differences in pace depending upon your breathing pattern.  I had a fairly successful competitive swimming career that lasted over a decade and continue to swim to this day as a triathlete as well as coach (approaching 48 years of swimming experience at this point).  If I were to do a 100 TT breathing every second, every third, every fourth, and every sixth stroke, my pace would be the same.  If I did longer TT's with the same breathing patterns, I would be slightly faster as I breathe more frequently because I have more oxygen.  If your pace is significantly changing as you breathe in different patterns that is a fairly clear indication you have a technique issue that can be improved.

Just my two cents.

2017-07-12 6:45 AM
in reply to: k9car363

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Subject: RE: Swim Training
Thanks,
I appreciate the help. I've been avoiding the coaching costs right now because I've already invested more than I originally planned with gear. I'm still really enjoying the fitness. I know when I am trying to expand to my eventual goal of a full IM I will need improve my stoke and efficiency. Another quick question. I'm 5'10" with average length arms. My current stroke count is averaging 10.5/100 yards according to my lap counter which would be 21. What should my goal stroke count be?
2017-07-12 8:21 AM
in reply to: jnuger

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Subject: RE: Swim Training

Originally posted by jnuger Thanks, I appreciate the help. I've been avoiding the coaching costs right now because I've already invested more than I originally planned with gear. I'm still really enjoying the fitness. I know when I am trying to expand to my eventual goal of a full IM I will need improve my stoke and efficiency. Another quick question. I'm 5'10" with average length arms. My current stroke count is averaging 10.5/100 yards according to my lap counter which would be 21. What should my goal stroke count be?

It's not quite as easy as "What should my stroke count be?"  Everyone has a stroke count/stroke rate that is ideal for them.  Strokes per length is essentially a measure of efficiency.  It can be a helpful tool, however it is easy to become fixated on that metric at the expense of improving your swimming.  I can get my strokes per length (SPL) below 10 fairly easily by extending my glide (25-yard pool, 1 arm pull = 1 stroke).  However, I won't be very fast.  Alternatively, I can get my SPL up to over 30 without too much difficulty also; however again, I won't be very fast.

You can find your sweet spot SPL/SPM combination by determining your  SWOLF score  and comparing different SPL/SPM combinations.

SWOLF is determined by adding your strokes per length and seconds per lap (single length of the pool).  It doesn't matter the length of the pool so long as you are "comparing apples to apples."  If you compare SWOLF results from the same pool they are meaningful, if you compare SWOLF results from different length pools they are meaningless.  Also, comparing YOUR SWOLF results with someone else's SWOLF results is meaningless.  A lower SWOLF score is the desired result - to a point. You can get artificially low SWOLF scores with a VERY long glide however a glide introduces a dead spot during which there is no propulsion being applied to the water which will result in going slower.

For example, you swim a 25-yard lap at 0:45 and take 22 strokes your SWOLF would be 67.  The next lap you swim a lap at 0:44 and take the same 22 strokes your SWOLF would be 66 indicating that your stroke was slightly more efficient that second lap.  As you begin to chart different SPL/SPM combinations it will become clear what your "sweet spot" is.

Most age-group triathletes will naturally swim at their most economical SPL/SPM combination (most efficiently).  Amazing how the human body does that!  It can take a great deal of time to chart various SPL/SPM combinations.  Instead of focusing on strokes per length or strokes per minute I'd suggest you focus on proper technique and use SPL and SPM to gauge progress.  The ultimate goal is to have an efficient stroke and increase your turnover rate WHILE MAINTAINING YOUR EFFICIENCY.

Hope that helps.

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