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2017-12-06 10:56 AM

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Subject: Man competing as a woman


http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/transgender-weightlifter-scores-m...


I'm sure it won't be long before there are men who think they are women competing in triathlons. Might be kind of awkward in the T1 tent as you strip out of your jammers and your junk if out there for all the ladies to see.

Oh well, wouldn't have done me any good, I was a BOPer. Actually would have killed my time. I can hear people now as they looked at the splits, "Look, this idiot spent 2 hours in T1."


2017-12-06 11:28 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by Rogillio http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/transgender-weightlifter-scores-m... I'm sure it won't be long before there are men who think they are women competing in triathlons. Might be kind of awkward in the T1 tent as you strip out of your jammers and your junk if out there for all the ladies to see. Oh well, wouldn't have done me any good, I was a BOPer. Actually would have killed my time. I can hear people now as they looked at the splits, "Look, this idiot spent 2 hours in T1."

your ignorance knows no bounds.

2017-12-06 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Rogillio http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/transgender-weightlifter-scores-m... I'm sure it won't be long before there are men who think they are women competing in triathlons. Might be kind of awkward in the T1 tent as you strip out of your jammers and your junk if out there for all the ladies to see. Oh well, wouldn't have done me any good, I was a BOPer. Actually would have killed my time. I can hear people now as they looked at the splits, "Look, this idiot spent 2 hours in T1."

your ignorance knows no bounds.




Thank you!! I pride myself on my boundlessness!


BTW, your naiveté is boundless too! Welcome to the boundless club.

Edited by Rogillio 2017-12-06 12:44 PM
2017-12-07 1:30 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Rogillio http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/transgender-weightlifter-scores-m... I'm sure it won't be long before there are men who think they are women competing in triathlons. Might be kind of awkward in the T1 tent as you strip out of your jammers and your junk if out there for all the ladies to see. Oh well, wouldn't have done me any good, I was a BOPer. Actually would have killed my time. I can hear people now as they looked at the splits, "Look, this idiot spent 2 hours in T1."

your ignorance knows no bounds.

I do have a legit question that I'm curious about Dave.  What is your opinion on people who are biologically male at birth competing in sports as a female after transitioning? 
I feel it's a very difficult situation because they obviously have biological advantages that the biological female participants do not have so it boils down to fairness in competitive sports.

2017-12-07 8:52 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Rogillio http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/transgender-weightlifter-scores-m... I'm sure it won't be long before there are men who think they are women competing in triathlons. Might be kind of awkward in the T1 tent as you strip out of your jammers and your junk if out there for all the ladies to see. Oh well, wouldn't have done me any good, I was a BOPer. Actually would have killed my time. I can hear people now as they looked at the splits, "Look, this idiot spent 2 hours in T1."

your ignorance knows no bounds.

I do have a legit question that I'm curious about Dave.  What is your opinion on people who are biologically male at birth competing in sports as a female after transitioning? 
I feel it's a very difficult situation because they obviously have biological advantages that the biological female participants do not have so it boils down to fairness in competitive sports.

 

i dont think they should be allowed for that reason.  However, being an jerk about it like some people above is entirely unnecessary.

2017-12-07 8:55 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Good question, I found this:
"In November 2015, less than a year before the Rio Olympics, the IOC changed its requirement in an attempt to make the 2016 Games more inclusive after determining that trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports as long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes who were designated female at birth. The IOC also ruled that sex reassignment surgery was unnecessary, as it made little to no impact on an athlete’s performance"
Recent articles from WaPo and NYT support this interpretation of IOC ruling:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athlet...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/olympics/transgender-athle...


2017-12-07 8:56 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by Oysterboy Good question, I found this: "In November 2015, less than a year before the Rio Olympics, the IOC changed its requirement in an attempt to make the 2016 Games more inclusive after determining that trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports as long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes who were designated female at birth. The IOC also ruled that sex reassignment surgery was unnecessary, as it made little to no impact on an athlete’s performance" Recent articles from WaPo and NYT support this interpretation of IOC ruling: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athlet... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/olympics/transgender-athle...

well there you have it, science has determined it doesn't give an advantage

2017-12-08 7:37 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by Oysterboy

Good question, I found this:
"In November 2015, less than a year before the Rio Olympics, the IOC changed its requirement in an attempt to make the 2016 Games more inclusive after determining that trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports as long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes who were designated female at birth. The IOC also ruled that sex reassignment surgery was unnecessary, as it made little to no impact on an athlete’s performance"
Recent articles from WaPo and NYT support this interpretation of IOC ruling:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athlet...
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/olympics/transgender-athle...



Awkward T1. Opps, there I go being a jerk again.

The idea that the only difference in men and women is testosterone is ridiculous I don't care what the IOC says. "Don't pisz on my back and tell me it's raining!"

2017-12-08 8:17 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Oysterboy Good question, I found this: "In November 2015, less than a year before the Rio Olympics, the IOC changed its requirement in an attempt to make the 2016 Games more inclusive after determining that trans women do not pose an unfair advantage in sports as long as their testosterone levels are consistent with those of athletes who were designated female at birth. The IOC also ruled that sex reassignment surgery was unnecessary, as it made little to no impact on an athlete’s performance" Recent articles from WaPo and NYT support this interpretation of IOC ruling: https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/do-transgender-athlet... https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/sports/olympics/transgender-athle...

well there you have it, science has determined it doesn't give an advantage

* as long as testosterone levels are under certain levels.

It's still an interesting dynamic because they don't allow females to take testosterone for performance gains, but the transgender is obviously having to take medication to get testosterone levels down to a certain level.  I don't know how you measure testosterone levels, but lets say 100 is acceptable so the transgender athlete gets it down to 100, but the biological females are at say 90.  They can't legally take testosterone to get up to the maximum allowed limit without it being considered doping.

As I said, it's very complicated and for the most part it's fairly an academic discussion because it's extremely rare for transgendered persons to be competing in high level sports.

2018-01-01 5:08 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
I do believe in science and would be interested in how they made their determination. I've supported GLBT issues for 30 years but I think that doesn't mean this isn't a fair question. A problem I see is that a trans woman could have built up a good amount of muscle prior to her hormone treatment to lower testosterone. Don't know how long she can maintain it, but that could be an unfair advantage. Then there is height, but there are a good number of tall female athletes and I don't know what that does for you in triathlons anyway.

I like exposing the lie that a penis itself defines a person and their abilities. I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.
2018-01-02 8:26 AM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by MuscleMomma

I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.


And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.


2018-01-02 9:32 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

I think it is funny that the focus is on testostrone levels, but physically the 2 sexes are quite different in the hip.  Men tend to run with more of a straight gait while women's legs tend to move out and around as they stride.  This makes a significant difference in speed and performance that should not be overlooked.  This is something that transition surgery would not change.

2018-01-02 10:02 AM
in reply to: velocomp

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

so...you realize that the transition surgery isn't the big deal here right?  a lot of changes come about with hormone therary, depending on when and how long you've undergone it.

2018-01-02 10:13 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by dmiller5

so...you realize that the transition surgery isn't the big deal here right?  a lot of changes come about with hormone therary, depending on when and how long you've undergone it.

Does the hip issue change?  I'm asking because I have no idea.

2018-01-02 10:18 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by dmiller5

so...you realize that the transition surgery isn't the big deal here right?  a lot of changes come about with hormone therary, depending on when and how long you've undergone it.




Not a big deal? Seriously? Might want to educate yourself before you jump into anything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reassignment_surgery

2018-01-02 10:25 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by dmiller5

so...you realize that the transition surgery isn't the big deal here right?  a lot of changes come about with hormone therary, depending on when and how long you've undergone it.

Does the hip issue change?  I'm asking because I have no idea.

My limited understand, caveat.

 

If the therapy starts before or during puberty, it does.  After i'm not entirely sure.  I do know that the hormones can alter bone density, shift body fat, etc etc.  I'm not sure if it can change hip shape after they are fully formed in say a 45 year old man or something. Many (most?) of the ATHLETES competing at the olympic level, who have undergone hormone, and are in the peak of their athletic ability, to make the olympics after all.  Are probably pretty young.  I'd also imagine a woman born with very narrow hips isn't disqualified from racing.

 

and rogillio.  Have the actual equipment isn't really the issue here.  If you strapped a penis on a woman it wouldn't magically make her a faster runner or stronger weightlifter.  its the hormones.

 

From the IOC

Under the previous IOC guidelines, approved in 2003, athletes who transitioned from male to female or vice versa were required to have reassignment surgery followed by at least two years of hormone therapy in order to be eligible to compete.

Now, surgery will no longer be required, with female-to-male transgender athletes eligible to take part in men’s competitions “without restriction”.

Meanwhile, male-to-female transgender athletes will need to demonstrate that their testosterone level has been below a certain cutoff point for at least one year before their first competition. [...]

 

How long it will take the athlete to reach the new cutoff limit will depend on individual cases, Ljungqvist said.

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“If you change sex, you will have to have a hormone level below 10 for 12 months,” he said. “That does not mean a one-year guarantee. You don’t go below 10 from day one. It takes quite some time. It can take more than one year or two years.”



2018-01-02 11:24 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
"Men's and women's vital organs differ in size and efficiency. Men have larger hearts and lungs than women. Women have larger livers, stomachs, thyroid glands, and kidneys than men. Women have lower blood pressure and a faster heartbeat than men."

"Women’s skeletal structures have wider hips, broader facial bones, smaller chins, a longer trunk, and shorter legs than men."

I read those on the internet so they have to be true.

I keep thinking of swimming and how men and women differ greatly.

"...Olympic level, men are swimming 5–8 seconds faster than women on 100m events. On distance events, the gap is even greater. The men’s record on the 1500m free is 14:31.02. The women’s record is 25:06.60. This is more than 11 minutes slower."

2018-01-02 11:34 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by Rogillio "Men's and women's vital organs differ in size and efficiency. Men have larger hearts and lungs than women. Women have larger livers, stomachs, thyroid glands, and kidneys than men. Women have lower blood pressure and a faster heartbeat than men." "Women’s skeletal structures have wider hips, broader facial bones, smaller chins, a longer trunk, and shorter legs than men." I read those on the internet so they have to be true. I keep thinking of swimming and how men and women differ greatly. "...Olympic level, men are swimming 5–8 seconds faster than women on 100m events. On distance events, the gap is even greater. The men’s record on the 1500m free is 14:31.02. The women’s record is 25:06.60. This is more than 11 minutes slower."

I have a bigger prostate

2018-01-02 12:08 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by Rogillio "Men's and women's vital organs differ in size and efficiency. Men have larger hearts and lungs than women. Women have larger livers, stomachs, thyroid glands, and kidneys than men. Women have lower blood pressure and a faster heartbeat than men." "Women’s skeletal structures have wider hips, broader facial bones, smaller chins, a longer trunk, and shorter legs than men." I read those on the internet so they have to be true. I keep thinking of swimming and how men and women differ greatly. "...Olympic level, men are swimming 5–8 seconds faster than women on 100m events. On distance events, the gap is even greater. The men’s record on the 1500m free is 14:31.02. The women’s record is 25:06.60. This is more than 11 minutes slower."

 

FIRST OF ALL.  The women's 1500m free record is 15:25.48 by katie ledecky

2018-01-02 12:11 PM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by dmiller5

Originally posted by Rogillio "Men's and women's vital organs differ in size and efficiency. Men have larger hearts and lungs than women. Women have larger livers, stomachs, thyroid glands, and kidneys than men. Women have lower blood pressure and a faster heartbeat than men." "Women’s skeletal structures have wider hips, broader facial bones, smaller chins, a longer trunk, and shorter legs than men." I read those on the internet so they have to be true. I keep thinking of swimming and how men and women differ greatly. "...Olympic level, men are swimming 5–8 seconds faster than women on 100m events. On distance events, the gap is even greater. The men’s record on the 1500m free is 14:31.02. The women’s record is 25:06.60. This is more than 11 minutes slower."

 

FIRST OF ALL.  The women's 1500m free record is 15:25.48 by katie ledecky




Danm internet! You can't trust nuttin' these days! I should have known that.....I just copied/pasted without actually thinking about it and seeing if it sounded reasonable. My bad.
2018-01-02 1:29 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.


And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.


I need to quit this political thread as I do too much politics in my life and I don't want to stop liking you BT folks, but I have to answer this. The above is a cultural cliche and like most mindless cliches has no basis. Many things influence how people think, economics, region of country, ethnicity, race, religion, gender experiences etc. Males and females are not different species and are overwhelmingly more alike than different. If you went to another country you'd realize how much more you have in common with an American woman (in general) than with a man from another culture.


2018-01-02 1:36 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by MuscleMomma
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by MuscleMomma I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.
And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.
I need to quit this political thread as I do too much politics in my life and I don't want to stop liking you BT folks, but I have to answer this. The above is a cultural cliche and like most mindless cliches has no basis. Many things influence how people think, economics, region of country, ethnicity, race, religion, gender experiences etc. Males and females are not different species and are overwhelmingly more alike than different. If you went to another country you'd realize how much more you have in common with an American woman (in general) than with a man from another culture.

Yeah...........ok.........sure.

2018-01-02 1:41 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman

Originally posted by MuscleMomma
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by MuscleMomma I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.
And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.
I need to quit this political thread as I do too much politics in my life and I don't want to stop liking you BT folks, but I have to answer this. The above is a cultural cliche and like most mindless cliches has no basis. Many things influence how people think, economics, region of country, ethnicity, race, religion, gender experiences etc. Males and females are not different species and are overwhelmingly more alike than different. If you went to another country you'd realize how much more you have in common with an American woman (in general) than with a man from another culture.

I'd encourage you to stick around though.  We encourage diverse points of view here and it's one of the best places we have to discuss this type of stuff.
Many of us have been here for years and know each other very well (in an online capacity) so we tend to poke fun and prod, but more out of familiarity than anyone being mean.

Personally the people I like most on BT are those that I disagree with here.  dmiller thinks I'm a knuckle dragger, but I still really like him.  ;-)   (see, poking fun)

As for the ignoring of penis's and boobs I'll only speak for myself (as a knuckle dragger).  I cannot ignore boobs and if there's naked ones in front of me, I most definitely am not going to ignore them.  <hides head>
Come to think of it, I get a bit uncomfortable when the creepy dudes walk around the locker room with their junk hanging out as well.  hah

2018-01-02 2:14 PM
in reply to: MuscleMomma

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by MuscleMomma

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by MuscleMomma

I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.


And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.


If you went to another country you'd realize how much more you have in common with an American woman (in general) than with a man from another culture.


Which country? I have been to Mexico, England, Scotland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Monaco, Vatican City, Spain, Liechtenstein, Morocco, South Korea, Canada, Japan, Bahamas, British West Indies, Norway, Sweden, Republic of the Marshall Islands, Russia, Denmark, Finland, Belize, Honduras, China, Nepal, Qatar, Peru, Singapore and the United States of America. I've been among the people of these places....I've drunk beer in their bars and shot pool with the locals and one thing for certain, men are men the world around! And we think differently than women think.

Years ago when my wife and I were having 'issues' we read Men are From Mars, Woman are from Venus and it opened our eyes to what we each put value in. We've been married for just over 30 years now and we understand and respect that we are different and we think differently.

Men and woman are simply wired differently. I saw a documentary about the sexes. They interview a couple that seem to be liberal children of the 60s and they had decided to raise their children without any gender norms. They did not dress the boys in blue and the girls in pink. They tried to keep everything gender neutral. They said when they gave dolls to the girls, the girls played house. When they gave dolls to the boys they boys used the dolls like swords and had a sword fight.





2018-01-02 2:21 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Man competing as a woman
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by MuscleMomma
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by MuscleMomma I can ignore a penis as well as boobs, or anything else that is flying about in a transition tent. I'm not a child.
And you are not a man! Men and woman don't think alike and don't behave alike. Right or wrong, society calls promiscuous men studs or playboys and they call promiscuous woman sluts or hoes.
I need to quit this political thread as I do too much politics in my life and I don't want to stop liking you BT folks, but I have to answer this. The above is a cultural cliche and like most mindless cliches has no basis. Many things influence how people think, economics, region of country, ethnicity, race, religion, gender experiences etc. Males and females are not different species and are overwhelmingly more alike than different. If you went to another country you'd realize how much more you have in common with an American woman (in general) than with a man from another culture.

I get a bit uncomfortable when the creepy dudes walk around the locker room with their junk hanging out as well.  hah





I used to work in a building that had a small lockerroom and gang shower. The shower that has a pole in the center with like 8 showerheads off the top forming a circle. I used to go running at lunch every day. There was an older fellow who was hung like a horse and very proud of it and would strut around the locker room swinging to and fro. One day we were both in the gang shower and he starts doing his post-run stretching! In the shower!! I was like, on come on!? Really? It was really awkward and I had to cut my shower short to get out of there.
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