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2006-10-16 8:57 AM

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COURT JESTER
12230
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ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

Since my wife asked me to post this (actually kina cool that her first thought was to bring this to BT), here it goes, and this is my most painful post to date.


MURPHY DOG UP FOR ADOPTION (?)


I put the question mark as I still have some talking to do with the wife.


Anyway, Sunday morning at the in-laws, Murphy his paws on the counter and knocked off a container dipping juice (for an Italian Beef).  My wife got him in the cage (without getting physical in anyway) then went to shut (not slam) the cage door and Murphy nipped her enough to raise a blood blister.  She is concerned about the possibility of Murphy biting our son, even though he’s never come close.  Not even when he stepped on Murphy’s tail. (Since I know someone will mention this, and I’ve already thought of it, any dog (no matter how good) has to potential to snap and bit (they are animals).


I’m not concerned about Murphy biting our son (or the child that’s on the way) as he is already leaning to pet (not hit), to walk the dog, and to feed the dog.  As soon as our son able to say (and understand) commands like, sit, down, stay and such he will learn those and Murphy will learn to obey.


My ONLY concern is that I don’t believe Murphy recognizes my wife as the Alpha Female of the house.  I blame that on the amount of handling he gets from me versus her.


Anyway, with all that out of the way, Murphy is a GREAT dog.  Like most people he has momentary lapses of Genius and Idiocy, yet mainly he’s GOOD.  We adopted him for the Humane Society in Janesville, WI two and a half years ago and they thought he was a mix of German Shorthaired Pointer and Beagle so he loves to run and always runs with me.  We play fetch with a tennis ball in the house (sometimes outside when he’s on a 100 ft. long rope) and he’ll even play with the ball by himself).  He loves everybody and his tail wags so fast you can’t keep up with it.  So far he loves all other dogs he’s met, they just may not like him due to his energy.  He knows the basic commands; sit, down, wait, stay, heel, up (puts his paws up on me) and off (to get his paws off).  We’ve been through some obedience classes and he did some agility classes.


Oh yeah, Murphy is 18 inches at the shoulders, weighs about 35lbs, and has a full (and happy) tail.


I would really prefer he goes to a family or person who  1) has the time for him   2)  who likes to run and WILL take him running   3) has a well fenced yard to play in  (we live in a condo so no fenced yard, and he’s done well).   4)  will have a gentle hand in disciplining him.


I know a while back there was a a group of BT’ers willing to team up to get a dog from Ohio (I think) to Madison.  So IF Murphy must go, perhaps something like that could be arranged.


Any questions?


So if the BT community could help with either a personal adoption or someone you know.   Please let me know.  Will keep this thread updated as my wife and I talk.


Thank you.


Ty



Edited by tupuppy 2006-10-16 8:58 AM




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(Murphy 0020.jpg)



(Murphy 0025.jpg)



(Murphy 0005.jpg)



(2005 June 03.jpg)



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Murphy 0003.jpg (70KB - 5 downloads)
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Murphy 0005.jpg (70KB - 5 downloads)
2005 June 03.jpg (41KB - 5 downloads)


2006-10-16 9:09 AM
in reply to: #569801

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The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

Sorry to hear that you have to get rid of Murphy- hopefully you can find him a really good home.  You need to post pics. of Murphy so everyone can fall in love with him!!



Edited by runnergirl 2006-10-16 9:10 AM
2006-10-16 9:14 AM
in reply to: #569813

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COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
runnergirl - 2006-10-16 8:09 AM

Sorry to hear that you have to get rid of Murphy- hopefully you can find him a really good home.  You need to post pics. of Murphy so everyone can fall in love with him!!

DONE!!!!   Everyone who loves a dog with personality has become instant friends with Murphy.  

2006-10-16 9:23 AM
in reply to: #569801

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The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

Awww....he's cute!  I bet you won't have a problem finding him a good home.  I have fostered 2 stray dogs and found really good home for both of them.  If you don't have any luck on this site, my best suggestion is to put up flyers in vet offices and send out an email to coworkers if possible.  And when adopting him out, make sure that you have the people come to your house and see how well they interact with him  and how they treat him.  If they have another dog, have them bring the dog so you can see if they get along or not- the same with children.  ALso, make sure to ask them questions such as- where they plan on keeping hte dog, do they have a fence, what vet they would use, etc.   It's ok to tell people no if you don't think they will be a good fit for your dog.   You want him to go a good home and not to just anyone. 

Another idea is to find a local animal rescue shetler and see if they will post his information on petfinder.com under their organization and help you find him a good approved home if you agree to keep him in the interim.

But hopefully A fellow BT'er will want him   I would take in a heart beat, but I barely have time my own dog!

2006-10-16 9:37 AM
in reply to: #569801

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2006-10-16 9:42 AM
in reply to: #569801

Master
2571
20005002525
Tiger's Den
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

TUPUPPY- since this was an isolated incidence, why don't you treat it as such? I remember my springer nipped at DH and I a few times, once in play, once or twice as we were taking pizza away from her (that she got off the counter). Usually it had to do with food- But yet I never worried about her with my elderly MIL or with a child.

Sounds like Murphy was mad and he reacted accordingly.  I think there are things you can do to establish your wife as the alpha female, but perhaps just need to talk with a trainer. Don't give up on him!

Just put yourself in the dog's position. He "found" a treat, and your wife took it away. I think you are fine as long as your children know not to ever try to take food away.

But only you can make a decision.... I'm just asking you to not give up on Murphy....



2006-10-16 9:52 AM
in reply to: #569801

Crystal Lake, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
2006-10-16 10:06 AM
in reply to: #569801

The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
Another idea is to have your wife take him to an obedience class.  That might help him understand that your wife is the alpha and once they have that bond he should respect her authority.  If that doesn't work, then maybe you should find him a new home.  Just a thought.
2006-10-16 10:11 AM
in reply to: #569870

COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

runnergirl - 2006-10-16 9:06 AM Another idea is to have your wife take him to an obedience class.  That might help him understand that your wife is the alpha and once they have that bond he should respect her authority.  If that doesn't work, then maybe you should find him a new home.  Just a thought.

The challenge is the time for her to do that.  She is one year into building her own business and puts in a LOT of hours.  Something we'll be talking about though.  Thank you for the thoughts and keep them coming. 

 

2006-10-16 10:31 AM
in reply to: #569801

Expert
623
500100
Issaquah, WA,
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
I am so sad to hear that you are thinking about giving up Murphy. Have you thought of contacting a dog trainer or animal behaviorist?
2006-10-16 10:43 AM
in reply to: #569903

COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

harmony - 2006-10-16 9:31 AM I am so sad to hear that you are thinking about giving up Murphy. Have you thought of contacting a dog trainer or animal behaviorist?

As stated before, will be talking with the wife about this further.  Just checked the schedule of a local dog training club and they have an obedience classes on Tuesdays (my wife’s day off) and our son can be at daycare while she takes Murphy to class.  Since it’s during the day there is no way that I can substitute and Murphy will HAVE to obey HER command.  Will be mentioning that to her today…as class registration is TOMORROW.

EDIT:   Hope no one thinks I'm trying to make my wife appear as the "bad cop" on this.  I'm not.  Just stating thoughts and what we have discusses so far.



Edited by tupuppy 2006-10-16 10:44 AM


2006-10-16 12:08 PM
in reply to: #569801

Alpharetta, Georgia
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
Awww...

I agree with the idea that if your wife is the "alpha," the dog needs to have training to show him that. You can't just expect him to change a behavior without teachin him how. There are lots of good artices out there about teaching dogs rank in the household.


A tidbit I use: Every time my dog does something he's not supposed to do, I flip him over on his back (not with force, he's small enough I can cradle him like a baby) and tell him no. There's something about a dog being on his back = learning submissiveness and that he is not in charge.
2006-10-16 12:26 PM
in reply to: #569801

Master
1670
10005001002525
Harvard, Illinois
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

I think this is an isolated incident. If your dog really had a bad bone in his body he would be curling his lip and growling at your wife while showing some teeth.  Then you know a dog is about to strike.

My understanding of the alpha structure is that there is only one alpha and everyone else falls into place. The dog could either be high on the list or at the bottom. A couple of things your family can immediately do to put him in his place. Make him sit before eating. Make him sit before going outside. Make sure if he is walked outside the human goes out first. If you wife goes up and pets Murphy and he rolls on his back then he is being submissive. Don't confuse the dog by saying sit sit sit sit sit sit sit. Say it once and if the dog doesn't respond you make him sit.

I have three giant breed dogs and the only time they have ever tried nipping at me is when I caused them some discomfort or pain.

 

2006-10-16 1:14 PM
in reply to: #569801

COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

I appreciate everyone's input and thoughts and HOPES that Murphy stays with us.

Murphy has nipped at her before.  He's really only nipped me when I've caused him discomfort (one time he got me good but that was a combination of moving hand meeting moving teeth).

Checked the local dog training club web sight (Murphy went to two classes there when we first got him) and they have a basic obedience class on Tuesday mornings (my wife's day off) so I hope she's willing to make the time for an 8 week course (even if it's a repeat for the dog) to try to get the "chain of command" back in place.

Here is something I thought was FUNNY yesterday though.  On the ride back from my in-laws, our son in the car seat and Murphy in the back seat next to him whining (he loves the idea of a car ride, just whines when the car actually moves) and I was give Murphy the AHH!!!!  sound when he got loud, our son started making the AHH sound...just not as loud.   Or I'd ask our son to tell Murphy   "shhhhh" and he would. 

2006-10-16 5:51 PM
in reply to: #569801

Queen BTich
12411
500050002000100100100100
,
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

I hope you and your wife work something out. It sounds like Murphy just needs a little more training and a severe spanking.

I would love to adopt the cute fellow but I can't.

2006-10-16 7:45 PM
in reply to: #569801

Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
Good luck with the obedience classes ... and it doesn't hurt to be perfectly honest with the instructor about the incident. They often have good insight into animal behavior. Crate training is a brilliant thing to do with a dog, but the crate isn't to be used for punishment ... and trust me ... dogs know when they are being punished even if you're not scolding them or being physical. When my dogs misbehave, they get put out in the yard and shunned. No matter how tempting it is to just put the dog in its crate when it's naughty to get it out of your hair ... that's their den ... their safe space ... and they should not associate it with punishment. I always toss a cookie or two into the back of the crate as they go in, so I don't have to deal with them trying to poke their faces back out the door before I get it shut.

I'm not trying to be silly, as I know this is not a silly topic; however, your wife cannot be deemed the Alpha female of the house. She has to earn it, and she could interact with the dog all day and still not establish herself as the boss. Obedience classes will do ALOT to cement the relationship.

There are tons of other alpha behaviors that you can practice on Murphy in the meantime ... and none of these have to be ugly ... just make it habit to keep the pack in line ...

1. Never step over or around your dog ... make him move out of your way. ESPECIALLY if the dog is blocking a doorway.
2. Never allow the dog to decide when/if he gets up on the furniture ... he should only get up on the furniture when he is invited ... and if he works his way up to being higher than you on the furniture ... make him get down.
3. Most nipping behaviors are learned/practiced when humans get down on the floor with the dog and become part of the pack. If you're going to play games that are likely to end up with tugging or trying to get a ball or toy from the dog, you should either stand or sit on a piece of furniture.
4. Alpha always eats first. Even if it's just a few chips when you walk in the door ... be sure the person feeding the dog feeds him/herself first ... preferably in front of the dog. Do not share!
5. If you are walking the dog on a leash, never let the dog go through the doorway before you. They should be made to sit and wait ... and then be given permission to come through the doorway.
6. The dog should earn his treats. Always ... and yes, going willingly into a crate is one way to earn cookies.

I'm sure there are others, but that's all I can think of right now. Since I have Rottweilers, I have to practice these little pack order exercises regularly ... and they're now second nature.

Some animal trainers pooh pooh these types of habits, but they work fine for me ... and seem to make sense to the dogs.

I wish you luck as your dog is VERY cute and does not seem to have a serious temperament problem!!


2006-10-16 10:00 PM
in reply to: #570430

Veteran
264
1001002525
Worcester, MA
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

oh, I hope your wife can invest the time...  my jake puppy has always responded better to the husband since we got him in March, and now that AdCo is traveling full time, it's been a real  adjustment for me and the dog.  it culminated in a dog mini-riot and monica breakdown last week (thank g*d for my mom who lives upstairs), and now we're back to all of the things Robin mentions (the pack order stuff), plus instead of sleeping with me in the bed, he's sleeping in his crate again.

it's slow, but it's working.  he relapsed a little bit tonigh after AdCo was home this weekend, but now that I know to stop all of his little dominating behaviors right in the bud he's much better.  Also, he's only getting attention and love when he's a calm dog.

anyway, good luck with your (very cute) dog.

2006-10-16 11:03 PM
in reply to: #569801

Champion
5495
5000100100100100252525
Whizzzzzlandia
Silver member
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

Please work at it a bit more with Murphy! My ex husband and I had terrible behavior problems with our chocolate lab Mocha, but we got them worked out through 3 sessions of training.... basic, intermediate and advanced! Mocha just needed someplace to direct her energy... and she needed to see me as a leader figure, someone to take seriously and listen to.

It worked, but it takes patience and consistency.

PM me if you decide to give Murphy up for sure. I might have a friend that is interested. MIGHT.


Good Luck!

Whizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

 

2006-10-17 8:22 AM
in reply to: #569801

COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

Thank you ALL for your input.  Told my wife that everyone here (so far) was in favor of working it out with the dog.  GO BT!!!!!! 

 ---------------------------------------------------- 

We talked last night and I mentioned that we need to find ways (non aggressive ways) for her to show Murphy that she is above him in the ‘chain of command.’  I mentioned that as much concern that Murphy would nip/bite without cause as I have that Sophie would (Sophie is a chicken wrap in dogs fur......inlaws Boston Terrier).

 

 

Wife mentioned that the times he’s nipped at her was basically after he had pulled something off the counter and she’s tried to correct him.  I mentioned in return that we then need to find a way to limit his mistake of getting food off the counter (thru training/no leaving food on the counter).  Also mentioned that had we had him since a pup we could have trained that out of him (most likely), since we got him when we was set in certain ways, we need to expect that from time to time he’s going get something off the counter.

 

 

Wife asked me to call the vet to see if there were any recommendations for nipping behavior and I added that I would ask about those things to do to put her in the dominant role.

 

 

Wife asked me to do this:   Think about what it would take for Murphy to do before I think he would need to go…and write it down.  (So far, and this is not the final written thought:  An unprovoked / non-defensive nip or bite.  So a nip for an ear or tail pull does not count)

 

 

I asked my wife to do this:  Consider taking Murphy back to obedience class (just her) as I looked at the dog training club web site (the place Murphy had his first two classes) and they have a 9:30am Tuesday morning class where Christian can go to daycare and she can take Murphy.  (or at minimum, work with him at home on the basic commands)

 

Also, I still have a biz card for the very first dog trainer we had and I’m going to call her for ideas as well.  Have to do more investigating on ‘hands off discipline.’

 

2006-10-17 8:35 AM
in reply to: #569801

Expert
994
500100100100100252525
Clio, MIchigan
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
You should do some googling and look at Nothing in Life is Free NLIF. It is a way of living with your dog, in a hands off sort of discipline that establishes his place in the family. Your entire family needs to practice this as it seems that your dog is testing his limits. Also you say your wife doesn't have time for obedience classes, maybe call a behaviourist that will come into your home and work with your family and the dog. Just make sure the trainer also uses positive reinforcement and a hands off approach.

Best of luck, I have several links for the NLIF, if you have problems, PM me and i can help you out.

Hope things work out with Murph and your family
2006-10-17 1:42 PM
in reply to: #569801

Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
I'm sure this will work out. Perhaps a behaviorist for the suspect activities is a good idea. Try paying special attention to the commands you give the dog when he does something like put his paws on the counter ... and be sure it's consistent. It's easy to use commands like "off" and "down" to mean more than one thing and that's confusing to the dog.

The other thing that you might consider down the line is to actually give Murphy a command for putting his feet on the counter. Something simple like ... "counter". Put a treat on the counter, pat the counter, encouraging him to put his feet up there while giving him a command. Once he does that part reliably, you can teach him "no counter" by putting a treat up on the counter and giving the "no counter" command ... the reward for not putting his paws on the counter would be a treat handed to him while he has 4 on the floor. The better he gets at "no counter" ... the more tempting items you can use to proof him. Sometimes you have to teach a dog to do something in order to teach it not to ... I had a very vocal female that I had to teach to "speak" before I could teach her to "no speak".

There are also exercises you can do with long leashes in order to keep hands away from nipping mouths during training ... and there's always the squirtgun correction approach, which I use for proofing at the end of training. You have to be quick and have good aim ... but poor Fido just cannot figure out how you got to him from so far away ... and that's a good thing!

GOOD LUCK ... be consistent!


2006-10-17 2:37 PM
in reply to: #569801

Pro
5153
50001002525
Helena, MT
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

I'm soooo glad that your wife is considering working with Murphy before exploring the option of giving him up. When I saw the title of this thread, I almost cried!!!

I've also had some similar issues with Stanley. He is just more drawn to Eric and has always been more bonded with him. As a result, he saw Eric more as the one to listen to. I don't have any problems being dominant, but it just turned out that way.

The tides have turned recently and now Stanley and I are more bonded than ever before.  Bonding is, of course, easier with a puppy, but it can happen very successfully with an adult, too! Eric has been out of town for the vast majority of the last month, so I've been the provider of all things. I've been feeding him, playing with him, if he wants love, he has to get it from me. Obviously, you can't just leave town for a month and let your wife and the dog bond and she's very busy. But it might be worth trying, in addition to the training, to get her to assume a role as the primary caretaker for Murph for a month or two, after which time, you can share the role. Have her feed him, groom him, and if she can't take over exercising him, have her at least spend 15 minutes a day doing a play/training session with him. She should become Purveyor of All Treats. You have to lay off and try to just leave him alone for awhile. These are the kind of things that really help a dog bond to a person. The alpha most often is whoever the food and most of the caretaking comes from. Just an idea to supplement the training class. Really, it works wonders...

2006-10-17 2:41 PM
in reply to: #571019

Master
2052
20002525
Colorado
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)

I don't have any problems being dominant, but it just turned out that way.

Snerk.

 

(sorry, sorry. someone had to go there, and Jim's been busy)

2006-10-17 5:04 PM
in reply to: #569801

Champion
7704
50002000500100100
Williamston, Michigan
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
awww give the more guy a second chance   He looks uber cute and family friendly
2006-10-17 6:28 PM
in reply to: #571024

Pro
5153
50001002525
Helena, MT
Subject: RE: Murhpy Dog up for Adoption (?)
Chippy - 2006-10-17 12:41 PM

I don't have any problems being dominant, but it just turned out that way.

Snerk.

Good evening, Chippy. I'm Mistress Kim and I'll be delivering your punishment tonight. Now if you'll kindly grab your ankles, we can proceed...

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