Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Another reason I hate smokers.... Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 5
 
 
2006-10-26 10:38 AM
in reply to: #579561

User image

molto veloce mama
9311
500020002000100100100
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
for anyone who thinks second hand smoke is no big deal:

Secondhand smoke has been classified by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) as a known cause of cancer in humans (Group A carcinogen).2

Secondhand smoke exposure causes disease and premature death in children and adults who do not smoke. Secondhand smoke contains hundreds of chemicals known to be toxic or carcinogenic, including formaldehyde, benzene, vinyl chloride, arsenic ammonia and hydrogen cyanide.3

Secondhand smoke causes approximately 3,400 lung cancer deaths and 22,700-69,600 heart disease deaths in adult nonsmokers in the United States each year.4

A study found that nonsmokers exposed to environmental smoke were 25 percent more likely to have coronary heart diseases compared to nonsmokers not exposed to smoke.5

Nonsmokers exposed to secondhand smoke at work are at increased risk for adverse health effects. Levels of ETS in restaurants and bars were found to be 2 to 5 times higher than in residences with smokers and 2 to 6 times higher than in office workplaces.6

that's just part of the list. the rest is here: http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35422

for a list and description of the chemicals in smoke: http://www.smoke-free.ca/Health/Healtheffectssmoke.htm

and i have to get this in, as a mom:

Children who breathe secondhand smoke are more likely to suffer from pneumonia, bronchitis, and other lung diseases. Children who breathe secondhand smoke have more ear infections. Children who breathe secondhand smoke are more likely to develop asthma. Children who have asthma and who breathe secondhand smoke have more asthma attacks.There are an estimated 150,000 to 300,000 cases every year of infections, such as bronchitis and pneumonia in infants and children under 18 months of age who breathe secondhand smoke. These result in between 7,500 and 15,000 hospitalizations!

more here: http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=39858#children





Edited by autumn 2006-10-26 10:39 AM


2006-10-26 10:38 AM
in reply to: #579696

User image

Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
Comet - 2006-10-26 11:34 AM

Again, cycling is dangerous because people ride on roads and can get hit by cars or cause accidents. I guess they should outlaw that as well.


Not sure about where you live ... but bicyclists have a legal right to an entire lane in North Carolina ... the problem is lack of enforcement. Again, not even remotely comparable to smoking.
2006-10-26 10:39 AM
in reply to: #579702

User image

Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
CBarnes - 2006-10-26 11:37 AM

Smoking is a nasty habit but it is a legal product and I am very concerned with the laws we are passing restricting the rights of citizens to enjoy a legal product. It think it is rude and obnoxious to smoke on a running trail, outside the entrance to a building or most other places that I have to smell it.


Alcohol is a legal product. Are you concerned about the drunk driving laws?
2006-10-26 10:41 AM
in reply to: #579701

User image

Elite
2863
20005001001001002525
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

1 Foot The Other - 2006-10-26 10:36 AM Smokers' rights vs. Non-smokers' rights? Yeah, give them the right to smoke ... why exactly ... does that mean I have to give up my right to not? If you're smoking next to me in public ... I'm smoking, too. In my view, you don't have the right to make that decision for me. That's why I think windows should be rolled up and public places all made non-smoking. Smoke in your own space. And NOTHING gives a smoker the right to decide that a cigarette butt isn't litter. GRRRR! My vice is food ... and perhaps it would be good for someone to make it harder for me to eat ... but nothing I eat, publically or privately, is going to make YOU fat.

VERY well said!

And, Comet....the danger associated with cycling only effects me, not those around me.  And what makes cycling so dangerous?  Vehicles.  Ban vehicles?  More laws?  No, I'm just asking for people to take on personal responsibility for their actions and be conscious about how they effect others. 

2006-10-26 10:43 AM
in reply to: #579706

User image

Queen BTich
12411
500050002000100100100100
,
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

1 Foot The Other - 2006-10-26 10:38 AM
Comet - 2006-10-26 11:34 AM Again, cycling is dangerous because people ride on roads and can get hit by cars or cause accidents. I guess they should outlaw that as well.
Not sure about where you live ... but bicyclists have a legal right to an entire lane in North Carolina ... the problem is lack of enforcement. Again, not even remotely comparable to smoking.

And smokers have a legal right to smoke outside, or more importantly in their cars. We can't make them roll up the windows.

I don't get your point.

Cyclists have a right to the roads here. But people argue that its dangerous and it can cause accidents that affect other people. Same principal to me.



Edited by Comet 2006-10-26 10:50 AM
2006-10-26 10:44 AM
in reply to: #579696

User image

molto veloce mama
9311
500020002000100100100
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
ac?ci?dent –noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
2. Law. such a happening resulting in injury that is in no way the fault of the injured person for which compensation or indemnity is legally sought.
3. any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause.
4. chance; fortune; luck: I was there by accident.

we have stop signs, traffic lights, laws of the road. cars and bike are not going around willy nilly. there are traffic laws that are intended to protect our saftely. is driving still dangerous? sure. is biking still dangerous? sure. should we outlaw both? no. life is dangerous. laws are intended for the public good. whether they ALL really are is up for debate, but when it comes to smoking, protections need to be in place.

and the clean-air laws are not set up for asthmatic prudes like me who don't like to be around smoking. they are for people who are WORKING in smoking environments. you already have the RIGHHT to a smoke free work place, if you're working in an office building, or in a hospital, or a museum, why shouldn't a waitress and a bar tender have the same RIGHT?


2006-10-26 10:45 AM
in reply to: #579561

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2006-10-26 10:47 AM
in reply to: #579630

molto veloce mama
9311
500020002000100100100
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
oh, and didn't i also say "talk about giving money right to a VERY corrupt, environmentally crappy, socially CRAPPY industry. "??? you are totally right. the marlboro man is naughty.
2006-10-26 10:50 AM
in reply to: #579712

Queen BTich
12411
500050002000100100100100
,
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

autumn - 2006-10-26 10:44 AM
they are for people who are WORKING in smoking environments. you already have the RIGHHT to a smoke free work place, if you're working in an office building, or in a hospital, or a museum, why shouldn't a waitress and a bar tender have the same RIGHT?

I am not disagreeing with that agrument. You're right. And I don't want to go into a restaurant and breathe in the smoke either.

However, a public street is a public street. People should be allowed to bike, smoke, and drive their cars. Banning someone from smoking outside of a building or making them roll up the car window is absurd.

2006-10-26 10:54 AM
in reply to: #579561

Elite
2863
20005001001001002525
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

Or smokers should just wear this when in public........

2006-10-26 10:55 AM
in reply to: #579561

Runner
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
Ok, here's the thing...

Most of the people arguing the evils of smoking are talking about smoking in restaurants and other public places. The issue there is you are in a confined space. I have no problem banning smoking inside.

Unfortunately, you cannot ban smoking outside. Because it is not viewed as being a public health issue. If you're outside, you have the ability (generally speaking) to move away from the source; you not breathing in an excessive amount of smoke in those instances (lack of prolonged exposure).

So let's say they ban smoking outside. Does that mean that on my own property, I can no longer smoke outside? I don't think so.


2006-10-26 10:57 AM
in reply to: #579729

molto veloce mama
9311
500020002000100100100
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
i don't know if we'll ever get to the point where there will be laws saying people can't smoke on the sidewalk or that they have to keep the window rolled up (although, isn't davis, CA totally smoke free now? no smoking at all outside?).

to get back to the original sentiment - people should still be considerate and realize that they are stinking up the world for everyone around them (same goes for teenager at the mall w/ too much perfume/cologne!)
2006-10-26 11:12 AM
in reply to: #579561

Master
2447
200010010010010025
White Oak, Texas
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
Yes I am concerned with drunken driving laws I am concerned that if you are well to do politically or socially you get off lightly (Kennedy, Gibson). Driving while intoxicated risks the lives of the people around you smoking on a running trail does not. And for all of you who believe smoking is so bad and so dangerous stop beating around the bush with silly laws restricting a persons liberty and push for a ban on tobacco. We ban other drugs ban tobacco too. I don’t want anyone to think I condone smoking I do not I support prohibiting smoking in public buildings, I support judges who use smoking as a FACTOR in child custody cases, I believe that the owners of restaurants, clubs and other places should have the right to allow or disallow smoking in their buildings. I just do not like the government getting involved in personal habit issues.
2006-10-26 11:13 AM
in reply to: #579676

Got Wahoo?
5423
5000100100100100
San Antonio
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
oipolloi - 2006-10-26 9:26 AM
tmwelshy - 2006-10-26 10:07 AM

autumn - 2006-10-26 9:01 AM )

You are all making the assumption that smokers have some intent, some malice involved with their smoking. I know people who smoke and despise the fact that they do. It's an incredibly addictive behavior that impinges on those around you. No arguement there. Still, I wonder why you all don't rail against the companies the produce this crap instead of some poor bastard holding his hand out of the windows so he doesn't smell like a complete ashtray.

I don't rail against the "company" because I believe we, as humans, should be able to make our own decisions on what's right and what's wrong, good or bad.  Personal responsibility.

And, I'm not suggesting the 'Man' take the right to smoke away from people.  I just wish smokers would have a conscious.

Have you ever tasted a cig? It's aweful. It's not like a fat kid who eats too much ice cream. It's not just the nicotine...., it's the nicotine delivery, the areas of the brain affected, etc... everyone would chew nicotine gum instead of smoke. Talk to your congressman about outlawing smoking.  One of the issues that face combating the tobacco industry is the attitude that we, as humans, can "just quit" if we choose. While there is some validity there, is leaves out many of the other contributing factors: increased nicotine levels by 25% in the last 10 years, etc.... and doesn't solve the issue. At all.



Edited by tmwelshy 2006-10-26 11:22 AM
2006-10-26 11:19 AM
in reply to: #579720

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2006-10-26 11:20 AM
in reply to: #579746

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.


2006-10-26 11:23 AM
in reply to: #579774

Queen BTich
12411
500050002000100100100100
,
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

CBarnes - 2006-10-26 11:12 AM 
I just do not like the government getting involved in personal habit issues.

Exactly. I guess that was what I was trying to point out by comparing it to our right to ride.

2006-10-26 1:05 PM
in reply to: #579561

Elite
2768
20005001001002525
Raleigh
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

You know you could look at this another way. Instead of trying to make smoking illegal and infringing on someone elses rights. Why not look at it from a capitalist stand point and just not go to places that allow smoking. If enough non-smokers dont patrionize the resturant then the resturant will change its policy INSTEAD of having the government make laws that effect private businesses.

 

If you dont like smoking then YOU dont go out in public... That is a easy fix instead of trying to take away someone elses rights. If you dont want to smell like smoke, stay at home...

2006-10-26 1:10 PM
in reply to: #579950

Elite
2863
20005001001001002525
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
trigods - 2006-10-26 1:05 PM

....

If you dont like smoking then YOU dont go out in public... That is a easy fix instead of trying to take away someone elses rights. If you dont want to smell like smoke, stay at home...

Er'............If I don't want to smell like smoke, stay at home?!

Hmmmph.....

I'll let that one stew for a while.



Edited by oipolloi 2006-10-26 1:15 PM
2006-10-26 1:24 PM
in reply to: #579950

Elite
3519
20001000500
San Jose, CA
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
trigods - 2006-10-26 11:05 AM

You know you could look at this another way. Instead of trying to make smoking illegal and infringing on someone elses rights. Why not look at it from a capitalist stand point and just not go to places that allow smoking. If enough non-smokers dont patrionize the resturant then the resturant will change its policy INSTEAD of having the government make laws that effect private businesses.

 

If you dont like smoking then YOU dont go out in public... That is a easy fix instead of trying to take away someone elses rights. If you dont want to smell like smoke, stay at home...

Ok...confused...I agree that the government should not be the ones driving regulations or laws infringing on someones right to destroy their body.  But once again, the non-smoker is not the one whose actions are impacting the smoker...it is vice versa.  It is my right to breath in public.  My action has not caused anyone discomfort.  I am not saying that there shouldn't be designated smoking areas in public, but I think the burden should be on the smoker to stick to these areas.  Example: at work there is a designated smoking area in the parking lot.  Several times people have been told that is where they are to smoke.  But everyday, people with a lit cigarette walks from the smoking section or their car to the entry door.   They don't think about the people that they are affecting who MUST go out that door to get to their car.  I purposely avoid the smoking area, but I can't avoid leaving work everyday.  It is the uncontious decision made by the smoker who is affecting me.  I have not infringed on their right to smoke, yet they have infringed on my right to breath.  If I wear a cologn that a coworker is highly allergic to.  I would stop wearing the cologn.  It is respect for that persons health and well being.  It is the other persons right to be able to work without risk to health.  The coworker has not infringed on my right to wear the cologn outside of work. 

2006-10-26 1:30 PM
in reply to: #579561

Master
1920
1000500100100100100
Ann Arbor, MI
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
Another reason why san diego rules- they just outlawed smoking on all public beaches and public parks. While arguing about it, the prevailing sentiment was the trash it creates on the beach and the amount of money it takes to clean up other people's butts. When it was a money issue, the republicans took note and made the laws (SD is republican). Now enforcement of the new law is another issue...


2006-10-26 1:37 PM
in reply to: #579739

Master
2060
20002525
Northern California
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
oipolloi - 2006-10-26 8:54 AM

Or smokers should just wear this when in public........



Or non-smokers should. After all , it is for YOUR protection.

Edited by coachese 2006-10-26 1:39 PM
2006-10-26 1:38 PM
in reply to: #579561

Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
There's a business in the Research Triangle Park that has banned smoking on the premises ... you cannot even go out to the parking lot and smoke in your car. If caught, you get FIRED. And yeah ... NC is a hire at will fire at will state ... so it's perfectly legal.
2006-10-26 1:49 PM
in reply to: #579988

Elite
2768
20005001001002525
Raleigh
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....
runningwoof - 2006-10-26 1:24 PM
trigods - 2006-10-26 11:05 AM

You know you could look at this another way. Instead of trying to make smoking illegal and infringing on someone elses rights. Why not look at it from a capitalist stand point and just not go to places that allow smoking. If enough non-smokers dont patrionize the resturant then the resturant will change its policy INSTEAD of having the government make laws that effect private businesses.

 

If you dont like smoking then YOU dont go out in public... That is a easy fix instead of trying to take away someone elses rights. If you dont want to smell like smoke, stay at home...

Ok...confused...I agree that the government should not be the ones driving regulations or laws infringing on someones right to destroy their body.  But once again, the non-smoker is not the one whose actions are impacting the smoker...it is vice versa.  It is my right to breath in public.  My action has not caused anyone discomfort.  I am not saying that there shouldn't be designated smoking areas in public, but I think the burden should be on the smoker to stick to these areas.  Example: at work there is a designated smoking area in the parking lot.  Several times people have been told that is where they are to smoke.  But everyday, people with a lit cigarette walks from the smoking section or their car to the entry door.   They don't think about the people that they are affecting who MUST go out that door to get to their car.  I purposely avoid the smoking area, but I can't avoid leaving work everyday.  It is the uncontious decision made by the smoker who is affecting me.  I have not infringed on their right to smoke, yet they have infringed on my right to breath.  If I wear a cologn that a coworker is highly allergic to.  I would stop wearing the cologn.  It is respect for that persons health and well being.  It is the other persons right to be able to work without risk to health.  The coworker has not infringed on my right to wear the cologn outside of work. 

Right, I said if you dont want to smell like smoke and not breath it, then stay at home. There are a lot of things we come in contact with that makes us smell bad or can damage our health. i.e. have you ever drove by a paper plant? talk about smelling bad.... so if you live there are you going to try to get the city to pass a law to close the plant down because you may smell bad???
And there has been no proof positve that second hand smoke causes cancer any faster than other effects in the enviroment (i.e. breathing car exaust, poluted air). Both of my parents smoked like chimenys (my dad smoke camel non-filters) when I was little until I moved out of the house at 17. I do not have lung cancer and I breathed my fair share of second hand smoke... Besides the 45-to 1 hour you would spend in a resturant having dinner while the person next to you smokes is not going to make a big deal anyway.

Yes runningwoof you may not wear the offending cologne because it bothers the co-worker but another person may not be that nice. So then are you going to pass a law that people cannot wear offending cologne to someone else???

 I say the stay home cmment because I do it... I hate smoke!!!!! I think smoking is nasty, smelly, and I think there are a special place in hell for them. BUT I chose not to go to the bars because I know I will come home smelling like smoke, because I know it is someone elses right. Your alls argument that drinking, or eating fatty foods does not infringe on you is not correct. Do you not think we (tax payers) pay for all of the fat people who go to the doctor because they are fat and have 50 million things wrong with them? What about the money our tax dollars or medical premiums go to the alcoholics who have liver problems but cant pay their bills. Just because you dont breath it or get in on your clothes doenst mean it doesnt effect you. Look at the big picture here...

Again the whole point is, it is a right to smoke... it is not illegal. So even though I detest the nasty habit, I know that someday if I stamp out all smoking them someone will come after what I like i.e. porn and BT... We are becoming a society that caters the the few instead of the majority (everyone somewhere is offended here). I especially cant believe that the people that are GAY on here are for getting rid of smoking in public... I mean come on, can gay people not be any more tolerant since you guys feel like no one is more picked on than you??? In one thread you want to make same sex unions legal but the next outlaw smoking.... 

You know there is a lot of other people that dont agree with same sex unions but here you want someone else to respect YOUR right to be treated as a equal partner in the eyes of the law as regular couples do... seems hipacritical huh...

Like Comet said, some people thing riding a bike on the road way is hazzardess even though the LAW says we can... a lot of other people dont feel that way, that is why we get honked at, ran off the road, yealled and cussed at. But here it is ok with the LAW to do it but others feel we are a danger to ourselves and others...

Just remember that!



Edited by trigods 2006-10-26 1:51 PM
2006-10-26 1:53 PM
in reply to: #579561

Veteran
265
1001002525
Snellville
Subject: RE: Another reason I hate smokers....

This country has proven on multiple occasions that we cannot successfully legislate and enforce laws aimed at people's habits, be it tobacco, alcohol, sex, or any other... 

Do we legislate and ban home fireplaces because the wood smoke is released into the air?  Do we legislate and ban cars because the exhaust is offensive?   

People who want to smoke are going to smoke ragardless of any law that gets placed on the books.  If I find their smoking offensive, I go where people are not smoking. 

Regarding the littering, just take all your powerbar and gel wrappers and put them in the offenders front yard......  It won't make them stop but it will make you feel better.

New Thread
Other Resources My Cup of Joe » Another reason I hate smokers.... Rss Feed  
 
 
of 5