General Discussion Triathlon Talk » PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ? Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2006-11-14 8:40 PM

Online or Offline
Subject: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

I've somehow managed to make my way to completing an Ironman by basically training on my bike with a simple bike computer.

I never trained with a HRM - just RPE: if I feel good, then I go faster. If I feel tired, then I go slower.

I'm ready to get serious and take my bike training up a notch or two. I would like input from those who use things like the PowerTap, Ergomo, Computrainer, or whatever else is out there to help me make an informed decision on what would be the best purchase for me.

From what I've gathered:
Computrainer comes with all sorts of junk to hook up to your bike and PC. A trainer, all sorts of wires, the computer for your bike....and you cannot use the same bike computer on the road. But you can upload courses onto your computer and simulate riding them when you are inside on your trainer.

PowerTap: Glorified bike computer? Have to worry about having the right wheel/hub and gearing for it to work on your bike....can use on your trainer and goes to the road quickly.

Ergomo: Only have to replace current bracket with the unit. Bike computer has an altimeter (cool!). Wireless.

As far as I can tell, they all measure wattage, but they don't all transfer from indoor training to outdoor riding as readily. I can be wrong.

Also, with each product, does anyone know if any provide training plans to make effective use of them at all? I'm afraid I'll buy a unit, it'll tell me what I already know (I need to ride with more power!), and then I'll be stuck asking where do I go from here? Hire a coach?

Who has what, and how has it helped your training?



2006-11-14 8:57 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

May,
Here is a link with pros and cons for all power meters out there: http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/freeinfo/Power_Tools.html

IMO go with a true power meter that you can use ALL the time. A computrainer is a nice training tool for us New Englanders BUT what is the point of training with power if you can’t race with it or take it outside and really enjoy of all the benefits from the different data it provides.

You can’t go wrong with the PT or the ergomo. Both have good and bad things and both will enhance your cycling training A LOT. I like my PT Pro a lot but it failed to work at two important races because of rain. I talked to the saris group and they are sending me a kit which apparently reduces the trouble shooting when raining for the pro model. I know many users with the PT SL which never experienced that. I also love the PT because I got a computer kit for my road bike and I only need to swap the back wheel back and forward and I have power on both bikes. The ergomo has very neat features but it has a couple of things that I am not thrilled such as you can’t use any crank you want and a few others.

If you have a power meter and a trainer you basically have a computrainer, of course you don’t have the same features as a CT but you can get GREAT workouts for sure.

2006-11-14 9:07 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
TypeA Girl Pilot - 2006-11-14 8:40 PM

Also, with each product, does anyone know if any provide training plans to make effective use of them at all? I'm afraid I'll buy a unit, it'll tell me what I already know (I need to ride with more power!), and then I'll be stuck asking where do I go from here? Hire a coach?

Who has what, and how has it helped your training?

I forgot, you should buy the book 'training and racing with a power meter' by Hunter Allen and it will teach you how to benefit from it. (http://www.peakscoachinggroup.com/products/cycling_products_main.html )

Of course an experienced coach can really break down the data from every ride you do and find strengths and weaknesses, determine things to work on, help you with pacing, nutrition, etc. PT and ergomo are both great devices!

2006-11-14 9:16 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Pro
4675
20002000500100252525
Wisconsin near the Twin Cities metro
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
TypeA Girl Pilot - 2006-11-14 8:40 PM
Ergomo: Only have to replace current bracket with the unit. Bike computer has an altimeter (cool!). Wireless

The Ergomo is not wireless, unless they've come out with a wireless version since I bought mine (Ergomo Pro) in August. I love it.

This thread has some discussion on powermeters recently:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

Edited by Birkierunner 2006-11-14 9:18 PM
2006-11-14 9:27 PM
in reply to: #599489

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

Here we go.  A warning in advance to any readers;  your mileage may vary.  The things that I like, you may hate.  The features that I find usefull, you may find them less than.  That said, I'll give it a shot.

Computrainer:  I've owned one for 2 years.  The cost is around $1400.  It's reasonably simple to set up.  It consists of a mag-like bike trainer, controller box, cadence sensor that attaches to the chain stay with a magnet on a crank arm.  Computer software installation is reasonably straight forward.

Pros:  Has a very high "gee whiz" factor.  Makes very little noise while riding, I wouldn't think it would be objectionable to neighborly apartment dwellers, though I've not proved this since mine is on a concrete floor in the basement.  Has a number of programs built into the controller that you can use as a "stand-alone" feature, without it being connected to a PC.  These are basically various resistance programs, some at a steady straightforward pace, others simulating hills or changing terrain.  If the CT is connected to a computer, there is an amazing number of courses that can be "ridden" in a Playstation type environment.  You can creat your own courses.  You can do a workout and dump the information to the computer for analyzation, CT coaching software (extra cost) or with 3rd party software.

Cons:  Cost.  The feeling that the course simulations on the computer hardly mimic actual road riding.  In fact after 31 years of serious cycling, I feel the CT feels harder than the comparable road itself.  You don't get the luxury of freewheeling downhill on the CT for one thing.  After the intial novelty of riding a "road course" like Lake Placid, I found I hardly ever use that any more.  The CT requires daily calibration each time you ride, and may require a recalibration after 20 minutes or so when things have warmed up and settled down.  Calibration is not necessary if you aren't concerned about the actual wattage figures, but isn't this what you buy it for?  I had a hard time with the CT recognizing Polar coded chest straps and had to buy an additional sensor, or a separate non-coded strap for it to work correctly.  All the stuff works great as a trainer...but then it ends there.  Once you are out on the road, you are clueless as to your wattage figures.

Were I to do it over again, would I buy the Computrainer?  Probably not.  On a scale of 1-10, I give it a 3.  I probably don't make use of much of the capability of it.  Maybe that's just my style, my training methods, whatever.  It's a nice glorified bike trainer, and maybe would be more justifiable if you were using it 365 days per year indoors.  It might be a nifty thing for a health club, but I like riding on the road, and the CT does not do much for indoor boredom.  I'd get much more out of a simple trainer, a DVD player, and a stack of Ironman and Euro bike racing videos.

Powertap:  I do not own one, have no experience with one.  At least on the plus side it can give you "live" numbers while road riding.  The downside seems to be that it is wheel dependent, thus you would need more than one PT hub if you had 2 sets of wheels.  There have also been reports of it being finicky in wet weather.  I can not vouch for this, perhaps someone who owns one will help here.

Ergomo:  I have just  purchased this power system, and have only been using it for a few days.  To avoid sounding like perhaps I'm leaning heavily towards this system, I'll try to remain objective in my comments.

Pros:  Lets you see your wattage figures indoors (on a separate trainer) and outdoors.  Sorry, but it is not wireless though.  Installation consists of replacing your bottom bracket.  Probably a rather advance operation for the average bike owner, so it most likely would require either an LBS or a sympathetic friend to help.  Took me a couple hours to install.  There are 2 wires coming out of the BB, one to a rear wheel sensor mounted on the chain stay, the other to the handlebar controller.  Lots of features, works perfectly with my Polar coded HR strap, has a lot of typical bike computer features like mileage, elapsed time, mph, rpm, altitude (barometrically measured so you'd need to correct for current altitude each time you ride if you really are concerned with accuracy).  Comes with a software package that lets you download and analyze your info at no additional cost.  I like the software better than the coaching software that comes with the CT.

Cons:  Price, a bit more expensive that the CT, maybe by $100 or so.  I paid $1800 but that included a $300 set of carbon fiber cranks, which are not necessary.

My bottom line is that I like the Ergomo better than the CT for basic down and dirty wattage based training.  I don't use the Computrainer "video games" stuff, so it really does seem like a waste.  The Ergomo requires a separate trainer for indoor use, but at least you can take it out on the road.  In a 1 hour comparison ride, I ended up riding at 182 watts on the Ergomo, while the uncalibrated CT was doing about 170 watts, so possibly similar.  Calibrating the CT may provide closer numbers.

My vote would be:  Ergomo #1, Powertap #2, Computrainer #3.  I only put the PT second based on the fact that it's road rideable, but other than that my opinion is purely from speculation as to how good it actually works.  I'm available for further email or phone conversation if anyone wants to discuss it even more.  I'd also be willing to help any locals out with installation of either the CT or the Ergomo.

 

2006-11-14 9:30 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Champion
8766
5000200010005001001002525
Evergreen, Colorado
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
TypeA Girl Pilot - 2006-11-14 7:40 PM

I've somehow managed to make my way to completing an Ironman by basically training on my bike with a simple bike computer.

I never trained with a HRM - just RPE: if I feel good, then I go faster. If I feel tired, then I go slower.

I'm ready to get serious and take my bike training up a notch or two. I would like input from those who use things like the PowerTap, Ergomo, Computrainer, or whatever else is out there to help me make an informed decision on what would be the best purchase for me.

From what I've gathered:
Computrainer comes with all sorts of junk to hook up to your bike and PC. A trainer, all sorts of wires, the computer for your bike....and you cannot use the same bike computer on the road. But you can upload courses onto your computer and simulate riding them when you are inside on your trainer.

PowerTap: Glorified bike computer? Have to worry about having the right wheel/hub and gearing for it to work on your bike....can use on your trainer and goes to the road quickly.

Ergomo: Only have to replace current bracket with the unit. Bike computer has an altimeter (cool!). Wireless.

As far as I can tell, they all measure wattage, but they don't all transfer from indoor training to outdoor riding as readily. I can be wrong.

Also, with each product, does anyone know if any provide training plans to make effective use of them at all? I'm afraid I'll buy a unit, it'll tell me what I already know (I need to ride with more power!), and then I'll be stuck asking where do I go from here? Hire a coach?

Who has what, and how has it helped your training?

I own both a CompuTrainer and an Ergomo.

The CT ROCKS!  OMG...one of the best things I've ever bought!  I have had it since March and I LOVE it.  The possibilities are endless and you really feel like your trainer workouts matter.

I have only had the Ergomo for a month or so but I like it so far too!  I haven't been able to ride it outside too much (winter since I've had it).  But I like all the data I get from it.  The "altitude" data is really difference in altitude based on what you input as your current altitude.  It's much more weather durable than the PowerTap.  This is important if you tend to put your bike on the roof of your car and drive to Colorado in the snow.  It definitely transfers inside to outside without ANY problems.

If you get a power source you should buy a book on how to train with it...or hire a coach.  One or the other.  I've heard there is a book called "Training and Racing with Power".

If I was going to get them in any order I'd get the Computrainer first before the Powermeter...but maybe that's just because it's what I did.... 



2006-11-14 9:40 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
St Charles, IL
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

I have a CT a, PT Pro ( training wheel ), and PT SL ( race wheel ).

CT is mainly so I can use 'spinscan' mode ( analyze your pedal stroke ) and ride different courses virtually ( since I already have power ).

PT Pro is built into the mavic open bullet proof training wheel.  I ride on this wheel all the time except for races.

PT SL is built into a Zipp 404.  This is my race wheel.  I've only used it in races.

I do not have an Ergomo, but I hear good things about them.  Mike Ricci has thrown his hat into the Ergomo ring ( correct me if I'm wrong! ).  The main benefit to the Ergomo is that you don't have to have two different wheels to train and race like I do with the PT.  You can also use a disk wheel with the Ergomo.

I've heard good and bad things about both the Ergomo and PT.  Like anything, neither is perfect.

The main thing I can suggest is the book that Max threw out, as well as the Cycling Peaks software.  I don't have CP myself, as I'm PC challenged ( I use a mac ), but my coach uses it when he analyses my data and tells me what I'm doing wrong. 

Training and racing with power is a huge plus.  I think whether you take the leap for the Ergomo or the PT, you can't go wrong.  I would definitely get one of those two first, and save the CT for another time.  You can use the bike power meter with any bike trainer inside over the winter, as well as outside once it's nicer out.

-C
 

2006-11-14 9:45 PM
in reply to: #599489

Online or Offline
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

Very awesome and comprehensive responses here! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to put in their two cents.

Lots of things to consider...

 

2006-11-14 9:59 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Champion
19812
50005000500020002000500100100100
MA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

I bought the Power Tap because it was much much less expensive(about half) than an ergo. I bought the middle model from Performance Bike w/ coupon ends up $720. So for me it was cost/benefit relationship. I still want to get a carbon road bike so there is a limit to what I can spend on different things. For me I won't race with my Power Tap so wheel quality wasn't an issue, I just got the cheap $100 wheel they offer as a kit. Power Tap is coming out with a wireless model that should ship by end of December but it is about $1500 like the Ergo.

I have had it only less than a week but as a numbers Geek love to see all the stats. Having a coach any power meter allows me to email him the files for him to review and give me guidance on how to improve. It is a little like him being with me on every ride. Plus he can develop my training around power which is constant not like HR and the like.

Ergo only measures your left pedal power so it may or may not be off if your legs are not balanced which my coach thought as potentially a negative.

I agree with Jorge, buy the book and read about all the different models and brands. It has lots of good information to decide if trianing with a power meter is right for you and pros and cons for each brand and model. I've read the book through 2-3 times and continue to review it almost daily. I brought it with me to IMFL and it was my airplane book.

 

2006-11-15 12:03 AM
in reply to: #599489

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

I'll second what Kathy and Jorge and Chris said.  I also ordered that Training With Power book by Hunter Allen and Andrew Coggan.  It was available through Amazon for around $13.  I should get it any day now.  The benefit of that is you can use the book to devise your own power-based training plan.  I did try an online coaching plan last year and had less than stellar results, mostly because of my own busy schedule which made it difficult to stick to a plan that was set up by someone else.  Being able to devise your own allows for you to make many periodic adjustments based on your lifestyle.  That said, I feel with my extensive cycle racing background that maybe this is easier for me than it might be for someone just starting out.  But whether you plan to be your own coach, or have someone assist you, buying this book seems to be a good choice!

 

2006-11-15 12:11 AM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Master
1862
10005001001001002525
San Mateo, CA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
Thank you for posting your experiences with the various power meters.  I'm contemplating either the PT or the Ergomo as a Christmas present. 


2006-11-15 7:30 AM
in reply to: #599581

Online or Offline
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

betyoursilver - 2006-11-15 1:11 AM Thank you for posting your experiences with the various power meters.  I'm contemplating either the PT or the Ergomo as a Christmas present. 

Alex, let me know if you decide to go with the Ergomo. I believe M Ricci is planning on doing a bulk (5+ orders) discounted order at the end of November (if you can wait that long!)

I should have decided what I am going to do by then, and I'd like to get in on that order. Hopefully I won't miss THAT thread/announcement.

2006-11-15 9:24 AM
in reply to: #599645

User image

Master
1862
10005001001001002525
San Mateo, CA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
TypeA Girl Pilot - 2006-11-15 5:30 AM

betyoursilver - 2006-11-15 1:11 AM Thank you for posting your experiences with the various power meters.  I'm contemplating either the PT or the Ergomo as a Christmas present. 

Alex, let me know if you decide to go with the Ergomo. I believe M Ricci is planning on doing a bulk (5+ orders) discounted order at the end of November (if you can wait that long!)

I should have decided what I am going to do by then, and I'd like to get in on that order. Hopefully I won't miss THAT thread/announcement.

Do you have any indication what the ergomos will run - pricewise?

2006-11-15 10:16 AM
in reply to: #599489

Champion
8903
500020001000500100100100100
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

Alex, I got mine through Mike and the 5 person group purchase.  I believe he was offering it for $1599 and because of the group he gave you free shipping and included a software program that is compatible with TrainingPeaks for downloading the info and analyzing your workouts.  There is more info on the Ergomo by going to the D3 Multisport site.

Here is the link:  ERGOMO Power

 

2006-11-15 10:18 AM
in reply to: #599909

User image

Master
1862
10005001001001002525
San Mateo, CA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
max - 2006-11-15 8:16 AM

Alex, I got mine through Mike and the 5 person group purchase.  I believe he was offering it for $1599  ...

Thanks, Max. 

2006-11-15 2:40 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image


8763
5000200010005001001002525
Boulder, Colorado
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

Good thread:

I own all three and use all three on a weekly basis:

1. Compu Trainer (CT). Best tool I have bought in triathlon to make me faster besides aerobars. No joke. I use and have my athletes use ERG mode - most people don't even know what this is - but its the reason to own a CT. In ERG mode you tell the computer how many watts you want to put out. Think you can push 300 watts for 5 minutes? you can try and see. Want to do HIM efforts at exactly your HIM wattage - that can be done as well. All you have to do is pedal. When you go out on the road, you dial in the same cadence, RPE and HR and viola, you have the same speed and wattage as the trainer. I have had one since 2000. Great tool. You can also use any course in the world on your computer or spin scan and some other fun graphics if you want to fo that route. Typically my workouts are: warm up, 15x1:30 at HIM watts on :30 secs rest, then cool down. Like 1:15 ride time and my workouts are great for improving wattage at threshold, HIM wattage and IM wattage. Definitely no frills workouts. In 1:15 I get a ride comparable to 2+ hours on the roads. No stopping, no braking, no coasting. I use the CT YEAR ROUND - best thing that I like to do is to get on the CT on a hot day, no fan, long sleeves - trust me, you'll be acclimatized to any race in any hot climate if you do that. If you are interested in buying one, I can get a discount on these so send me an email.

2. Power Tap. I love my power tap. For me, I didn't have any problems with it, ever. I HATED not being ble to race with my race wheels, and I HATED how heavy the rear wheel was, but other than that its a great starter tool for power users. The limitations are having two sets of wheels or using your training wheel to race in and not having live data like the ERGOMO does when you are training/racing. The software for PT is out dated as well.

3. Ergomo. Now we are talking! For the price of the Ergomo, you don't need two sets of race wheels which makes it LESS than a PT, if you do the math. So, great product, German built, and I wouldn't worry about the power from one side too much - I haven't seen anyone have any issues b/c of this. Great product, gives live TSS, IF, Altitude gain, current alt, Npower and so on. The list goes on and on.

Since I use the CT year round, I would buy that first, Ergomo or PT second. I know I wouldn't ride my trainer if I didn't have a CT - and that means I wouldn't ride in the winter. I am pretty spoiled on the CT and after racing for 18 years now, I am still getting faster on the bike. That's how/why I think the CT is well worth the money.

That's my $0.02.

PS - if interested in 2nd Ergomo order, send me an email, not a PM. mike @ d 3 multisport.com - same for the CT too - groups of 3 get a better deal from CT.



2006-11-15 2:59 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Master
1862
10005001001001002525
San Mateo, CA
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?

So much great information to consider.  After I digest all of it, step back and consider what will work best for my needs I'll make a decision.  My LBS is heavily recommending the ergomo over the PT.  At this point, I don't like the idea of not having the power meter data if I were to switch out wheel sets - in the end requiring me to have the sensor on both wheel sets if I want my data.  This is probably the biggest disadvantage I can see right now. 

2006-11-15 4:39 PM
in reply to: #599489

User image

Extreme Veteran
474
1001001001002525
Sydney
Subject: RE: PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ?
Same set-up as the Dumpster... almost exactly!

Decided not to go the crankset/bb route (ie SRM/Ergomo) as I have two bikes (race and training) so instead have two Powertaps (one SL on a Mavic Open Pro, one SL on Zipp 404 race wheels). Now trying to pick up a cheap hub only to use as a training wheel on my race bike (the only one with aero bars on it) as I feel I should do more training in the Aero position and its a pain to shift the wheels over.

Also have the Computrainer, which I am currently negotiating to sell. Will then by a high-quality fluid trainer for the days I want to do trainer workouts and use the difference to fund the third Powertap hub (or maybe a fourth on a dedicated trainer wheel - ie with trainer tyre and trainer skewer on it).

Unless your in a climate where you will do a huge proportion of your riding on the trainer I think that a Powertap (or ergomo/SRM if you only have one bike but use race wheels) and a quality trainer offer a better value proposition.
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » PowerTap vs Ergomo vs Computrainer vs ? Rss Feed