General Discussion Triathlon Talk » swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2006-12-06 8:14 AM

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
Well ok I swam 2.4 miles last saturday and well took me 2:08:51. I do alot more speed work and drill work mid week. Plannning on using swimming for more of my cardio work outs until my knee is completely healed.

Question is I was thinking about swimming a long swim of 2.4 miles every week. Is that too far to go for a long swim weekly? will I set myself up for injury? maybe over training?

I currently swim about 4 to 5 days a week now which 4 are varied speeds and drills and 1 is a long swim. Each swim last for about 1 hour. I been thinking about an Iron Distance race this year but for now all I know is my HIM for sure.



2006-12-06 8:20 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Pro
3705
20001000500100100
Vestavia Hills
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles

Wow ... great discipline in focusing on the swim and being able to stay in the pool that long.

Be careful to spend some considerable time perfecting your form + stroke prior to making such distances a staple ... an improper pull, for example, can lead to shoulder injury given the distances.

2006-12-06 8:50 AM
in reply to: #617203

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
brian - 2006-12-06 8:20 AM

Wow ... great discipline in focusing on the swim and being able to stay in the pool that long.

Be careful to spend some considerable time perfecting your form + stroke prior to making such distances a staple ... an improper pull, for example, can lead to shoulder injury given the distances.



yeah. I had problems with keeping one of my elbows high. my swim coach showed me a drill and I did it for like 4 hours one week and now I rarely have that issue. I know when I swim the 2.4 mile pretty much the whole time I think of is my form and every part I am doing. Its a very mindful practice. Does not mean I doing it right though.

4 hours of drill a week with some swimming mixed in plus 2 hours of a long swim a week seems very doable. Plus it takes away from the boredom of always drilling. I also like to get faster at 2.4 miles and I figure one of the best ways you get used to a distance is to do it.
2006-12-06 8:55 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Giver
18426
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
You'd be better off focusing on shorter repeats of 150-250 yards, with a little rest (maybe :10-:15). But at 3:00/100, you're better off working exclusively on technique.
2006-12-06 8:57 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Expert
1070
10002525
North Carolina
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles

chirunner134 - 2006-12-06 9:14 AM Well ok I swam 2.4 miles last saturday and well took me 2:08:51. I do alot more speed work and drill work mid week. Plannning on using swimming for more of my cardio work outs until my knee is completely healed. Question is I was thinking about swimming a long swim of 2.4 miles every week. Is that too far to go for a long swim weekly? will I set myself up for injury? maybe over training? I currently swim about 4 to 5 days a week now which 4 are varied speeds and drills and 1 is a long swim. Each swim last for about 1 hour. I been thinking about an Iron Distance race this year but for now all I know is my HIM for sure.

If I am reading this right, that's around 4000 yards. People do those types of workouts on a regular basis if they are into swimming. Me on the other hand.............I do not. I would work on form and drills instead of swimming a straight 2.4 miles.

2006-12-06 10:41 AM
in reply to: #617254

User image

Champion
9407
500020002000100100100100
Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
run4yrlif - 2006-12-06 9:55 AM

You'd be better off focusing on shorter repeats of 150-250 yards, with a little rest (maybe :10-:15). But at 3:00/100, you're better off working exclusively on technique.


X2

You probably have rather large gains to be made through improving technique and swimming long distances tends to reinforce poor technique as your form will break down as you fatigue.

As well, I would probably schedule some follow-ups with the coach to make sure you are still on the right track and what comes next.

Shane


2006-12-06 11:12 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
ok thanks for the input. I would like to get used to swimming longer distances but you are right.

before master swim class
4:00 per 100 meter over 1 mile
3:00 per 100 meter over 50 meters

after 3 weeks of master swim
3:00 per 100 meters over 1 mil
2:20 per 100 meters at a 50 meter spirit

I will be getting happy once I get my pace to about
2:15 per 100 meters over 1 mile distance

I am assuming the repeats will condition my muscles better for this distance than long slow swim would.


2006-12-06 11:18 AM
in reply to: #617493

User image

Giver
18426
5000500050002000100010010010010025
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles

chirunner134 - 2006-12-06 12:12 PM I am assuming the repeats will condition my muscles better for this distance than long slow swim would.

Exactly. You'll find your pace during the repeats is a bit faster than your straight swim pace, and your form won't break down as much.

2006-12-06 11:24 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Expert
1024
1000
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
I've been swimming 4000 meters once a week for the last few weeks. I also do interval work. I have no issues with it.

2006-12-06 11:26 AM
in reply to: #617513

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
TexOma - 2006-12-06 11:24 AM

I've been swimming 4000 meters once a week for the last few weeks. I also do interval work. I have no issues with it.



how long have you been swimming? Do you have decent speed for the 4000 meters?
2006-12-06 11:35 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Pro
4206
20002000100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
I think now that you know you can swim the silverman distance, you just need to focus on technique and try to get your times down. Maybe swim 2.4 once a month or so just to gauge how much the shorter focused swims are helping.


2006-12-06 11:43 AM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Science Nerd
28760
50005000500050005000200010005001001002525
Redwood City, California
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
In my experience, I don't see as big of time drops when I continually swim long distances as I do when I swim intervals.  I've found that the method of breaking a long swim up into shorter pieces and taking rest helps me more than just swimming the whole thing straight out.  I still do the long swims, but I certainly wouldn't do them once each week.  I also tend to have pretty long swim sessions - at least an hour (about 2500 meters for me) and up to two hours.
2006-12-06 11:48 AM
in reply to: #617529

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
auto208562 - 2006-12-06 11:35 AM

I think now that you know you can swim the silverman distance, you just need to focus on technique and try to get your times down. Maybe swim 2.4 once a month or so just to gauge how much the shorter focused swims are helping.


That sounds like a very good plan. Ultimately that is why I stopped at 2.4 miles. I wanted to see how close I could get to completing the IM swim distance and if I could make it to see if I could do it in less than 2:20 which I believe is the cut off. It might be 2:30 but I would not want to shoot to just make the cut off either. I am sure poor sighting will slow me down alot also.

I like the idea of a Monthly Time Trial per say at that distance and maybe one at 1.2 miles because I have a HIM also coming up next year, and frankly I want to get better at those 2 distances.

It is the best of both worlds atleast until I get my speed up to a more respecible time. Then I can focus more on distance and endurance if I want too then. Plenty of time if I want to do Silverman, any other iron distance race, or if I get into Kona via lottery.
2006-12-06 11:56 AM
in reply to: #617555

User image

Pro
4206
20002000100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
The time cutoff was 2:20 but the waters are rough. Very hard to sight because the waves were high and the current was strong. Make sure you get some (actually alot) OW time in and prepare for the unexpected like if you get motionsickness or something. That was part of my downfall. I was consistently swimming 1:40-1:50 for the 2.4 miles in a pool, but DNF'ed on the swim there. Just FYI. It's good you are preparing now. You will be fine come end of the year, whatever race you chose.

chirunner134 - 2006-12-06 9:48 AM
That sounds like a very good plan. Ultimately that is why I stopped at 2.4 miles. I wanted to see how close I could get to completing the IM swim distance and if I could make it to see if I could do it in less than 2:20 which I believe is the cut off. It might be 2:30 but I would not want to shoot to just make the cut off either. I am sure poor sighting will slow me down alot also.
2006-12-06 12:59 PM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Expert
1024
1000
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
It usually take about an hour and 20 to 25 min to swim it. I agree that I should now focus on times and get my speed up. I swam competitively years ago so somewhere in the back of my mind there is confidence as a swimmer. But somehow there is also self doubt. Frankly the OWS scares the pants off me. So in order to combat my greatest fear, I figured that if I could prove to myself that I could swim long distances consistently, it would give the the confidence to do an olympic length tri and know that I'm not going to drown.
2006-12-06 1:07 PM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
Ah see that is way faster than me. That is farther than I swam by about 200 meters and you did it in less than 50 mins. If you can swim 4000 meters in a pool you should have no troubles swimming 1440 meters.

If I had your speed I would probably work more on the distance also. In theory your form should be pretty good but I know its easy to get sloppy if you do not practice it.


2006-12-06 1:40 PM
in reply to: #617203

User image

Champion
10471
500050001001001001002525
Dallas, TX
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
brian - 2006-12-06 8:20 AM

Wow ... great discipline in focusing on the swim and being able to stay in the pool that long


I second that.

There is no way I could hit the pool 4-5 days a week. *Flashes back to High School swim team*
2006-12-06 1:59 PM
in reply to: #617198

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
well pool is the only thing currently that does not cause me to be more injuried its the only reason. once that is fixed I might very well to go 4 days a week only. 2 for master swim class and other 2 because swim class I have to get up so early I might as well come in and swim those others days also before work.
2006-12-06 2:12 PM
in reply to: #617723

User image

Extreme Veteran
560
5002525
New Orleans, LA
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles

Why stop at 2.4 miles?

2006-12-06 2:29 PM
in reply to: #617746

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
H13 - 2006-12-06 2:12 PM

Why stop at 2.4 miles?



Why not? Its the max distance you will ever do for a IM swim. if you want a double then I would go beyond it but I do not see much gain to swim beyond 2.4 miles at this point. if you want more of a work out your better off swimming 2.4 miles and then jumping on the bike. I think that will give you better race performance than swimming 3.0 miles would. That of course is my opinion.
2006-12-07 6:38 AM
in reply to: #617787

User image

Expert
1024
1000
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
chirunner134 - 2006-12-06 2:29 PM

H13 - 2006-12-06 2:12 PM

Why stop at 2.4 miles?



Why not? Its the max distance you will ever do for a IM swim. if you want a double then I would go beyond it but I do not see much gain to swim beyond 2.4 miles at this point. if you want more of a work out your better off swimming 2.4 miles and then jumping on the bike. I think that will give you better race performance than swimming 3.0 miles would. That of course is my opinion.


The benefit of going beyond is that swimming laps and swimming in the "washing machine" is not the same thing. The fact that you can do one does not mean you can do the other. And two, there is a difference between swimming 2.4 miles and being ready for a centry ride and a marathon and being so tired you only want a knap.


2006-12-07 8:52 AM
in reply to: #618244

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
TexOma - 2006-12-07 6:38 AM

The benefit of going beyond is that swimming laps and swimming in the "washing machine" is not the same thing. The fact that you can do one does not mean you can do the other. And two, there is a difference between swimming 2.4 miles and being ready for a centry ride and a marathon and being so tired you only want a knap.


4000k is probably closer to what you would swim in terms of distance because of sightening and wave issues. 4000k is only 2.5 miles or 1 tenth of a mile farther anyways. If you got to swim the course alone but doubt many people would swim the straight line perfectly.

I know saturday for me was more to elimate a mental block that 2.4 miles is out of reach and knowing I can make that distance is a huge boast to my confidense.

The not wanting to take a nap afterwards is why I was thinking I should swim the distance more and more. Plus mentally distance seem short the more you do them. When I first started swimming in June I thought Wow .5 miles is so far. That is why of course I inquired about if I should swim it more and more.

This morning my body is completely sore more so than on sunday morning from my interval swimming. I think there is some real benefit to interview swimming, but I like the idea of swimming a TT once a month at 2.4 and 1.2 miles. That also means every other week I get to "race" even if its alone in the pool.

Still being a newbie to swimming I think I do think my form needs more work than anything. In 3 months though I very well may go to 2.4 miles a week or even 4k a week like you said. I do see good reason to get used to swimming a little farther.




2006-12-07 9:39 AM
in reply to: #618362

User image

Science Nerd
28760
50005000500050005000200010005001001002525
Redwood City, California
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
Actually, 4,000 km is 2,485.5 miles.  4,000 meters is 2.4855 miles.  I'm not sure why there's no benefit to swimming more than that, even if that is the longest swim you'll do in a race.  I've certainly done more than that in a swim workout.  It was a good workout.  As you get better, 4,000 meters may not be as much of a challenge and you might want to do more distance.
2006-12-07 4:10 PM
in reply to: #617254

User image

Pro
3906
20001000500100100100100
St Charles, IL
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles

run4yrlif - 2006-12-06 7:55 AM You'd be better off focusing on shorter repeats of 150-250 yards, with a little rest (maybe :10-:15). But at 3:00/100, you're better off working exclusively on technique.

What Jim said.

Until you can get 100's in the 2:00 neighborhood, spending 2 hours in the pool isn't going to help you much.

Primary focus at this point should be technique, IMHO.

2006-12-07 4:16 PM
in reply to: #618913

User image

Champion
6993
50001000500100100100100252525
Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles
coredump - 2006-12-07 4:10 PM

What Jim said.

Until you can get 100's in the 2:00 neighborhood, spending 2 hours in the pool isn't going to help you much.

Primary focus at this point should be technique, IMHO.



Thanks but then why spend 2 hours in the pool. . only take you 1:17 mins to do 77 laps at 50 meters a lap. which gives you little over 2.4 miles .

Since alot of you seem like IM distance swim experts do you know the avg time for an IM swim? I know the day can have a huge difference on how fast someone can swim but I am sure there is a pretty good range when about 50 the people have finished.

oh yeah my other question I been curious about. How must does a person's weight effect there swim? If I drop alot of weight can I see my swimming speed up alot like it does in running or are the gains marginal?

Edited by chirunner134 2006-12-07 4:21 PM
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » swim 2.4 miles or not to swim 2.4 miles Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2