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2006-12-12 10:08 AM

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COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: Murphy Dog update.

Well about two weeks ago I went home to watch him and the trash can was out from under the sink (behind child latches) and Murphy had is fun with that.  Didn’t catch him in the act so did not know how to discipline and figured that the wife or I had not closed the door completely.  A few days later, the kitchen was fine at lunch, yet between the noon walk and getting home after work he got the garbage out again.  This time I know the door was closed.  The smart (dumb) little bugger had figured out how to bypass the latch.  NOTE:  Nothing else in the house was destroyed…just the garbage.

Well, last Thursday the wife was having two friends over for dinner.  Before they arrived, she, our son and the dog were in a room with the door closed.  Doorbell rings.  Murphy goes nuts as usual.  That startled our son and he screamed a bit.  Wife said Murphy nipped in his direction.  I have no idea how close or far away the dog and our son were from each other.  NOTE:  As our son learns how to be gentle with Murphy he’s naturally wacked him on the head, pulled a tail, slapped him in the jowls and Murphy just takes it in stride…..no nipping.

So, last Friday I’m going nuts doing mental gymnastics at the thought of having to put Murphy down.  Go home for lunch to walk him and OMG…..We had stacked two storage crates in front of the sink to keep him from the garbage.  He moved those, tore the garbage up, got stuff off the counter (including a glass that broke) and there were dried red paw prints in the kitchen, and thankfully only the kitchen.

Well I completely lost it and sank to the floor crying my heart out that putting him down may actually happen now that he’s getting destructive (again, only the kitchen…none of our sons toys are touched).  I got so worked up I started to dry heave.

After talking more with the wife she thought we should try a remote (shock) collar.  I say that only makes sense if we are going to take the time to work through this and help Murphy create new habits.  She tells me to get the collar.  So, for now, that’s at least a temporary pardon.

So, Sunday I get the collar and put it on him.  There are 10 levels of correction OR a high pitched sound.  So far have only used the sound as we want him to get used to wearing the collar.  Don’t know if he has the animal instinct that he’s on his last attempt, yet he’s been such a mellow dog when we are home.  Even the barking at car doors slamming down the block has been kept to a minimum.  And of course during the day his house freedom has been taken away and he gets kenneled.

For anyone who might suggest putting him back up for adoption, I’m not going to lie about his nipping to get him into an animal shelter as that is not right.  So, would be honest with a shelter and let them tell me if they still think he’s adoptable or not.  If not, that will be a very bad day…….

For those who wished us well, the last time I wrote about the possibility of getting rid of Murphy, will update as this progresses.

Prayers for a good outcome (dog stays) would be greatly appreciated.



Edited by tupuppy 2006-12-12 10:10 AM




(Murphy 0020.jpg)



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2006-12-12 10:14 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Pro
4189
20002000100252525
Pittsburgh, my heart is in Glasgow
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
You've probably allready done this, but have you taken Murph to see a vet? My dog Tippy, normally very mild mannered and house trained, started to go nuts about a year ago. Accidents all over the house, being randomly aggressive, being constantly hungry/stealing food. We took her to the doc to find out if she was sick...turns out she has Cushing's Disease. Basically, she had a tumor on her pituitary that's non-operable. So we put her on medicine and she's been fine since, although you can tell when it is her pill day. She gets sort of manic, paces, does weird things. Not saying this is what is Murph's problem, but couldn't hurt to check.
2006-12-12 10:17 AM
in reply to: #621953

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COURT JESTER
12230
50005000200010010025
ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
Taking a guess that the garbage diving is out of boredom.  Have been sick and haven't been able to run him the last two weeks.   Just a guess though.
2006-12-12 10:31 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
I wrote a piece for the AKC Gazette about Rottweilers and their work ethic. Some dogs don't need a "job" ... but some do. Whether the job is to accompany you on your runs ... or chase the squirrels on command ... or go to obedience class ... some dogs just have to have a job. When the humans don't give the dog a job ... the dogs become "self-employed" and sometimes the terms of their self-employment are somewhat unsavory.

*pulls out soapbox*

And a crated dog cannot get in the garbage.

*slides soapbox back*

*thinks again*

*pulls out soapbox*

If you know the dog gets excited about the doorbell and might behave inappropriately, crate him 30 minutes before guests are to arrive. There is NOTHING any more cruel about using a crate as a tool for good behavior that there is about the new collar.

*slides soapbox back again*

Also ... no soapbox ... if you decide to surrender the dog to a shelter ... there is NOTHING wrong with telling them that the dog nips when he gets excited. It's NOT a death sentence. They just need to know so that they can screen homes properly. Many animals are placed specifically in child-free homes and homes where they will be the only pet due to certain behaviors. It doesn't sound like he's bad with kids ... just highly excitable.

Good luck!
2006-12-12 11:07 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Extreme Veteran
367
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Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.

I resisted the crate for 7 months.  I wanted nothing to do with crating my dog.  But she destroyed so much furniture and then started hurting herself, I didn't have a choice.  Training doesn't fix things overnight, we needed an interim step.  We got her a wire crate.  She broke a tooth (pulled last Monday) on the wires, which she managed to bend.  Then she destroyed the crate.

We got her another one.  This time, an airport-style crate that has no edges that she can get at.  It's been heaven.

Use your crate often, and call your local BarkBusters trainer.  Y'all need to re-establish who's alpha, and Murphy needs to spend more time in his own den.  It's hard, so hard, when you're home to have them crated, but it really helps, especially if your house is hectic.  Sometimes it's just too overwhelming to a dog.  Training with a good dog trainer will also really help, because there are so many little signals that a dog will pick up on that you won't even realize you're doing.  Simple things like giving in to a hand-nudge by a dog nose and petting the dog let the dog think they are in charge of getting their own attention.  Same with the nipping or nippings-at: even negative attention is attention to a dog.  A trainer who can come to your house and work with you and watch you interact with the dog will help you and your wife refine your behaviors and help you help Murph get back on track.

Good luck and  happy paws!

2006-12-12 11:17 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Champion
5495
5000100100100100252525
Whizzzzzlandia
Silver member
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.

Mocha (Chocolate Lab) was a maniac. We kept her crated for 2 full years before she was deemed trust worthy to be left out while we were gone.

Put the crate in a household area, near and with the family.

Keep it covered so it seems like a cave... or get one of the airport style crates.

Keep the door open when you're home... So Murphy can go in and out if he wants. We used to put toys in the crate... and cookies from time to time... so she never knew if something good would be in the crate or not...

We gave her a special toy (her KONG) usually stuffed with a cookie she had to concentrate on before we left... so we'd stuff the cookie in the Kong, throw it into the crate, say bye bye... and she'd sit in her crate completely distracted by the Kong. I don't even think she realized we were leaving.

I also took her for obedience lessons. This taught her respect for me, and reinforced her place in line as BEHIND me and my ex.

Good Luck.



2006-12-12 11:22 AM
in reply to: #621953

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The Original
7834
5000200050010010010025
Raleigh/Durham
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.

When did he really start the nipping? 

Reason I ask is becuase right now I'm kinda having similiar problems with my dog.  After finding 2 hot spots on her paws and taking her to the vet, he told me it's related to stress and anxiety.  Which that's a no brainer- she's stressed because I am fostering a dog at my house and have had him now for a bout 3 months.  I've notied a change in her more recently over the past 2 months- she's been horrible.  Her behvaior has been awful- she's been getting into my trash can and demolishing anything she can reach.  She got kicked out of doggie daycare this wekeend- they said she was being aggresisve with the other dogs, which is totally not her personality.  She' sbeen going there for a year and this is the first time they've ever had a porblem with hher misbehaivng.  Anyways, I'm trying my hardest to find the foster dog a home so that her life at home can return to normal.  Now bella is gated off when I am not home, and only has access to the hallway and kitchen.  One day she ripped my furniture by moving all of it in the center of the living- no kidding.  So now she doens't have full house privleges when I'm not home.  I've also had the hid the trash can when I'm not home and put it up on top of the washer so she can't get into it.

I wonder if Murphy is stressed becuase of your son?  If was the center of your attention for awhile he may not have adjusted well to your child.  He may just need to go a home without children.  That's just my opinion.  Dogs are strange and usually there's a specific reason behind a behavior.  They like humans, do get stressed.

Good luck with Murphy!



Edited by runnergirl 2006-12-12 11:24 AM
2006-12-12 11:24 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Elite
2451
20001001001001002525
West Chicago, IL
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
Crating is the hardest thing for me as a breeder to teach to new clients. My dogs ... right now I've got four, but I've had as many as seven ... love their crates. When they get tired or bored, they'll just go hang out in their crates with the doors open. When it's time for bed, all I have to do is say "ok ... everyone go to your room" and they'll all race to their crates ... where they know they'll get cookies as part of the night night ritual. I don't use the crate as punishment ... it's a safe place ... that can be used to keep the dog out of trouble.

The other night, the frenchie (the one in the avatar) decided to steal ANOTHER one of my CD's and start crunching on the case as if it were a proper chewtoy. She was in the other room (MY BAD!!), so I got up from my desk and walked in to see what she was up to ... when I saw the CD on the floor, I said "No! Shame on you. You're a BAD puppy." (I had to try really hard not to laugh because she's so FREAKING cute.) I picked up the CD and tossed it in the trash ... I turned around and glared at her. She ran to her little crate and nestled all up in the back of it for about half an hour ... with the door open. She knew she'd done wrong ... but she knew she'd be safe in her crate. Who says dogs aren't smart?
2006-12-12 11:25 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.

On Saturday's while I'm walking Boo (our dog) I listen to Calling All Pets on NPR.  They have covered several of the topics you've mentioned.  Check out their website:  http://www.wpr.org/pets/

And crating is not a bad thing.  I use to think so too.  But Dogs like small areas in general. 

Here is their pet tips section:  http://www.wpr.org/pets/pettips.htm

Have faith!!  Murphy will overcome.  With some help from the Alpha male.

2006-12-12 11:29 AM
in reply to: #621953

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Expert
760
5001001002525
Mt. Morris, IL
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
Like others have said, USE THE CRATE!!  My two dogs actually get mad when they can't get to their crates to take a nap.  Now when we have company or the dogs are out of control, I just say "crate" and they go off and lay down for a little nap.  They like having a place of their own where they feel safe. 
2006-12-12 12:10 PM
in reply to: #621953

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Expert
623
500100
Issaquah, WA,
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
We crate our dog, Shaylee and she does not have any negative connotations with it. She is never allowed to roam the house unsupervised. She is a very active breed (Gordon setter) and they have a tendency to get into things.

We have a lot of toys for her to play with. Kongs are great. There are a bunch of excellent recipes on the Kong website. What we usually do is mix kibble with low fat yogurt or cream cheese, freeze it overnight and give it to her in her crate before heading off to work. She also loves the Buster Cube. It can keep her attention for hours. If you feed solely kibble to Murphy Dog, you can give it to him in the Buster Cube instead of a bowl. It fulfills the dog's hunting drive since he is working for his food.

We also use "time outs" on Shaylee when she does behavior we never want her to do (for example, jumping up on the kitchen counters, getting into the garbage, excessive barking, nipping, etc.) We discovered this method when we took her to obedience class and it works like a charm. What you do is immediately after the dog does something bad you immediately say "TIME OUT!" in a stern voice but not yelling. Then you take him to his crate and leave him in there for a maximum of 10 seconds. (Dogs attention spans are not very long and if you leave him in any longer than that he will never learn why he is in there to begin with).

A word of warning/advice: If you use the time out method, you must always without fail time out for the behavior you are trying to eliminate. If you falter in this, the dog will learn that you are a pushover and will continue to do whatever he wants. Also, only use time outs for things you never want your dog to do again. If you abuse time outs, your dog will come to understand that it doesn't matter what he does he is going to get a time out so he doesn't care anymore.

With Shaylee the time-out method has worked like a charm. She will even time-out herself when she does something she knows she is not supposed to do. She knows what is acceptable and is a happier dog because of it.


2006-12-12 12:23 PM
in reply to: #621953

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Expert
686
500100252525
Lake Geneva
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
Sounds more like behavioral/stress issues. I had a hyper dog and never had to crate him or use a shock collar. I really subscribe to Cesare Milan's way of training dogs. Check out his books and show on National Geographic Channel. He is the Dog Whisperer.

Murphy Dog needs to be excercised to release all that energy, then you can reach his doggy brain about what is ok and what is not ok behavior (garbage, you son etc). Be the Alpha, Murphy will follow. Even your son needs to be seen as an Alpha to Murphy.

Also, take the garbage out so as not to tempt him with good smells. Or move it temporairily. (sorry internal spell check is off today)

You have to be consistient with his training. That means you and your wife are on the same page and repeat the training with Murphy. Dogs will forget and need gentle reminders. The Shock collar is an absolut issue with me, but hey, it's your dog and ultimately your decision.

Good Luck and I will send out good vibes to the universe for you and Murphy Dog!
2006-12-12 12:32 PM
in reply to: #621953

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Pro
4206
20002000100100
Los Angeles, CA
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.
Put the bugger in a class. They will teach you different techniques, including the crate as mentioned above.
2006-12-12 10:25 PM
in reply to: #622156

Elite
3650
200010005001002525
Laurium, MI
Subject: RE: Murphy Dog update.

seriously, everyone has had good advice.  I used to be a professional trainer and butted up against this stuff all the time.

The best thing to do is to find a class and start taking it.  A professional will be able to see your dog and your situation and address it head on.  All we can do is give you generalities and what we think are going on.  I will tell you that a good trainer will be able to read a lot more into the situation as subtleties like body language make a big difference.

As was addressed earlier, don't be afraid of the crate.  It's just a sleepy place.  It's not a punishment as long as you don't treat it that way.



Edited by vortmax 2006-12-12 10:30 PM
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