General Discussion Triathlon Talk » How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees Rss Feed  
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2006-12-19 12:34 PM

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Regular
97
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Robinson, TX
Subject: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

As John Stossel would put it, "Give me a Break!"

Okay - I admit that I'm cheap.  But come on, I saw a registration fee for a HIM race yesterday for $170.  I have seen OLY registrations for $95 and heard of some sprint distances as high as $75.

How much is too much?  What are you willing to pay for these distances?

My gut feeling is the following:

Sprint <= $45
Oly <= $75
HIM <= $125

In part this is one of the things that has drawn me to Ultras.  To compare cost per hour it just seems like I get more for my $ (or maybe that is why I'm so slow

Sprint 90 minutes/45 = $30/per hour
Oly 180 minutes/75 = $25/per hour
HIM 360 minutes/125 ~ $20/per hour

50 mile trail run 600 minutes/80 ~ $8/per hour (and $80 is high for a 50 mile, it is usually about a dollar a mile)

I realize that trail runs don't have the police involved, etc... 

Of course an M-dot race is "Priceless".

Thoughts? Comments?

(I guess I should get ready to duck if we have an RD's out there



2006-12-19 12:41 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Master
3019
20001000
West Jordan, UT
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
shornick - 2006-12-19 11:34 AM

Sprint <= $45
Oly <= $75
HIM <= $125

These are about exactly what I was thinking.   Although if a race hosts sprint and oly in the same day on the same course, it shouldn't cost really any more to host. 

2006-12-19 12:58 PM
in reply to: #628068

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Expert
1049
100025
Jacksonville, FL
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
The costs are getting quite high, especially when you have to travel. It becomes a major expense because my wife and I both compete.

However, the slower you go, the more cost effective it becomes.
2006-12-19 1:09 PM
in reply to: #628100

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Elite
2915
2000500100100100100
New City, New York
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

HIM in Harriman NY in May $175 if I pay by 12/31; $200 by 3/31 and $225 thereafter.

Timberman 70.3 $213 ( $190+$10 USAT fee + $13 ACtive.com processing fee)

So I guess $200 for HIM here in the NE anyway.

I'm at a point where I'd rather go long than spend $75 for sprint.

 

ps. just printed the appliacation to save $13 on the Harriman race. Thanks for the reminder! 

 



Edited by rollinbones 2006-12-19 1:20 PM
2006-12-19 1:12 PM
in reply to: #628057

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
Actually, I hope an RD does respond, but does so in a constructive manner. I'd be interested in what costs are involved in putting on a race. Here in Colorado, for example, because the climate is considered near-desert, water rights are strictly controlled. RDs need to get special permits to allow swimming in certain bodies of water because most water rights are privately held. At least that's what one RD told me.

I also think it depends whether a race is USAT or non-USAT sanctioned. Someone please confirm if I'm right, but I believe that non-USAT races need to buy liability insurance that's more expensive than USAT races because USAT provides discounts on insurance. I did a non-USAT off-road tri that cost $75, but they gave pretty decent goodies.
2006-12-19 1:13 PM
in reply to: #628057

Member
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2525
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
Frankly, when a tri doesn't sell out, the price is too high. As long as it keeps selling out or nearly so, the price can keep going up.


2006-12-19 1:21 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Expert
1169
10001002525
Sherman Oaks, CA
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
I pay a LOT more than what you quoted. Just like everything else in a big city.

The LA Triathlon must have cost a small fortune in police and lifeguards. Major intersections closed for hours.

Cheers
2006-12-19 1:28 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Master
2299
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New York
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
I'll second that for the NYC tri. They had 20k of the Henry Hudson closed for hours, not to mention parts or Riverside Dr., W. 72nd, CPW (I think?) and probably others. Still, $135 is tough to fully justify. And I'm still in trouble with the wife for the $470 for IMAZ (and I paid in May!)

Edited by KenyonTri 2006-12-19 1:28 PM
2006-12-19 1:29 PM
in reply to: #628143

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Elite
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New City, New York
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

Yeah, ordinarily  but what pisses me off about the one I mention in Harriman is it's 40 miles north of NYC, in a state park, and they are charging those rates. I'm sure he's making a decent profit.

It's only 15 minutes from home and I train there so it's a no brainer for me. Bothersome nonetheless. 

 

GolfMark - 2006-12-19 2:21 PM I pay a LOT more than what you quoted. Just like everything else in a big city. The LA Triathlon must have cost a small fortune in police and lifeguards. Major intersections closed for hours. Cheers

2006-12-19 1:30 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Regular
97
252525
Robinson, TX
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
My wife was injured during the 2006 season and I didn't do but 2 tri's.  I believe we are still paying off the 2005 season
2006-12-19 1:38 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Master
1845
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Athens, Ga.
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
When I find a sprint for $55, I consider that cheap. I try to race near home - so I can drive race day - or somewhere I can sleep on someone's couch. This year's Christmas money is going to next year's races...


2006-12-19 2:06 PM
in reply to: #628057

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
For those of you on budgets, I feel for you guys - really. But if it's just a question of being "cheap," I always like to put things in proper perspective by comparing tris with other hobbies.

Before deciding to do tris I thought of competing in powerlifting. Here are the costs for one meet:

http://www.nasa-sports.com/Entries/Entry%20AZ%20St%2004.htm

I also looked at the costs associated with golf, a quite popular hobby. A tournament put on by a local public course managed by our city was $65. Given that this is a city-run course, this is probably bottom of the barrel dirt cheap.

Keep in mind, too, that training for tris can be relatively inexpensive. Sure there's the initial outlay for a bike, running shoes, and all that, but I was recently in a sporting goods store and one golf club, admittedly a pretty fancy driver, cost $300. Running on the road is free. A golfer, on the other hand, needs to play out on the course. Green fees for a city resident on our public course - $25. It's $35 for a non-resident.

Any hobby is going to be expensive. Looking at the big picture, tris are relatively inexpensive, IMO. Plus you get health benefits that just aren't there with other hobbies.
2006-12-19 2:26 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

As others have sort of noted, it really depends where the race is being put on and what's invlolved.  I have paid about $75 for a sprint, $135 for an oly, $175 for a HIM, and $425 for IM.  But I can pay less for each distance if I choose to do a different race. 

There are a lot of costs for a triathlon (far more than for a running race) and for the most part I don't think the registration fees are "unfair" to racers.  If the RDs can't make money on the events then there won't be much incentive for them to run the races.

Here's some of the things a race producer must consider:  http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/features/raceproduction/raceprod9.html

2006-12-19 3:29 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Expert
1166
10001002525
Northern VA
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

It depends on where the race is held, how popular it is, maybe the reputation of the race director, etc. Those prices you listed for your gut feeling are much cheaper than most of the races in this area.

This can be an expensive sport, but still cheaper than smoking. Or golfing.

2006-12-19 3:37 PM
in reply to: #628212

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Expert
1169
10001002525
Sherman Oaks, CA
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
I have played in numerous golf tournaments. The registration fees are fairly cheap. The courses don't make much money. And I don't think I have ever heard of a for-profit golf tournament. They are usually run by the cities or the US Golf Association. I play in a lot of private golf tournaments which can be expensive. But those are restricted to members.

Golf though, on a daily basis, is much more expensive than triathlon. Green fees, carts, balls can add up to a small fortune.

Cheers

2006-12-19 3:52 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Mesa
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
$170 is cheaper than most. I paid $190 and $185 for the 2 HIM I have registered for. (One was last fall and one is in June).

I guess you are not going to want to pay the $450 for a Ironman race.


2006-12-19 4:04 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Regular
97
252525
Robinson, TX
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

I might one day - but I do like the price of the Redman Iron Distance Tri in OKC - it is $250.  I may do that this next year.

Est 14 hour finish $250/14=$17.85 per hour. 

2006-12-19 4:39 PM
in reply to: #628350

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
Thanks for that link, JohnnyKay. No surprise that the various government agencies try to screw over the RDs. You almost need to bring a lawyer along to negotiate the agreement. I'm also not surprised that the government side of things is the most expensive. In my line of work I have had to deal with the government on more than one occasion. While I have run into some very competent and professional government employees, I have also dealt with the typical "I work for the government, I can make your life miserable, and there's nothing you can do about it because I'm extremely difficult to fire" mentality.

Golf though, on a daily basis, is much more expensive than triathlon. Green fees, carts, balls can add up to a small fortune.


This is key. If you think about it, most of the costs that we incur for training are "fixed costs." How often do we buy new bikes? Running shoes probably need to be replaced every 6 mos. or so, but they're not terribly expensive. Gym memberships are probably the only recurring costs that we have, but if you're really in a pinch, you can forego a gym membership and still be able to do effective workouts for free. Just about every other hobby requires you to pay money just to spend time training and/or practicing: golf, bowling, skiing, feel free to add to the list.
2006-12-19 7:12 PM
in reply to: #628057

Regular
1025
100025
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
I'll chime in...I'm the RD for Mooseman, Timberman, Lone Star, Longhorn Tris....
Alot of the price is determined by the course and municipality...How many police are needed? How much does the venue cost to rent/reserve? How much are water permits? How much do police charge per hr? Do they require a cruise which is more $$$? How many volunteer groups needed (yes, most of those groups do it to raise money)?I put on races in NH and TX, and they're all different. Mooseman requires the fewest # of police, and is the least expensive.

How much does medical staffing cost? How about tent rental, porta potties, permit fees???? There are a million different factors in the equation. Then, there are goodies involved. We want to give athletes the best experience, and have the best goody bags, all the amenities, etc. Those cost $$$ as well. Some races are barebones, and can charge less...

Please keep in mind it takes a TON of work, and there is a ton of pressure/stress associated with putting on a tri. I put on a 2000 person Half Marathon, and it's a joke compared to putting on a tri...

I'd venture to say for the amount of work that goes into putting on a tri, RD's in general make very little money. I've never known one who got into it thinking, "here's my way to riches." We generally do it because we love the sport.

I've owned 3 businesses, and this is by far the hardest and most stressful. It's also the most fun and rewarding for me
2006-12-19 8:00 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Master
1915
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Hamilton, Victoria
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
So it's not just me then. I am looking at doing my first TRI in February. I thought I would ease into it by doing a Super Sprint. The event I chose was local to me and I hit the web site to register. AU$180.00!! I couldn't belive it. Of course I had no basis for comparison but I suddenly thought that my choice of sports was a very expensive one. Some further digging revealed that it was a unique event in that it was a corporate challenge and that it was a team event, which kinda made me laugh a bit - I mean a team Super Sprint event! C'mon even for a Clydesdale like me this is funny. Needless to say I didn't bother registering and I am now looking at a Sprint event around the same time but it is out of town so I also have to factor in travel and accommodation - preaching to the choir I know...
Anyways, I figured that $180 bucks equates to $60 bucks per person for the event. This is what I expected to be paying for a Sprint or Super Sprint event. But it did get me to thinking about scheduling my season, not around training but around economics.
I guess I will need to do some negotiating with the chief financial controller to release some more funds...
2006-12-19 8:06 PM
in reply to: #628133

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Master
2381
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Frisco, Texas
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

dave weilacher - 2006-12-19 1:13 PM Frankly, when a tri doesn't sell out, the price is too high. As long as it keeps selling out or nearly so, the price can keep going up.

Ding...we have a winner.  Economics 101. 



2006-12-20 7:17 AM
in reply to: #628556

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Cycling Guru
15134
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Fulton, MD
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
I was gonna throw out the Dan E. thing from Slowtwitch as well, thanks for linking that up John.

Depending on the venue and local it can cost the RD almost 90% of the entry fee to even put on the race. RD's don't make much profit, that's why they aren't all driving around F430's ........

Amiine puts on a race, he can tell you (and I know others here have as well).

I'm looking at just doing a small local 5k and the costs can be daunting for the unprepared!

(Oh, and when you buy "brand name" races it is ridiculous. Boston was $95, Eagleman was $210, and the regular entry for IMFL was $450).
2006-12-20 7:28 AM
in reply to: #628057

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Expert
798
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Potomac, Maryland
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees

Race fees are getting expensive, but so too are costs.  We can always be purists and do what the first IM triathletes did.  Get a small group together, issue a tri-challenge, cobble together a make-shift award, and race for free.

2006-12-20 8:08 PM
in reply to: #628057

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Champion
6993
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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: How much is too much? - Race Registration Fees
Well tris have alot of costs. alot of miles of roads to close for the bike. Look at chicago marathon $95 and they only close 26 miles where an oly has to fit in 25 miles about just on the bike.

chicago marathon 40,000 where most tri have like 300 - 1000 people?
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