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2007-02-07 5:17 PM

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Subject: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

Some of this is just me talking out loud to myself, but maybe someone out there has had a similar experience and could give some insight.

I'm not going to get into all the details, but in a nutshell, I injured one of my Achilles tendons back in July 2006 and it's still not 100%.  I quit running right after it happened.  Went to physical therapy all of September and October.  Neither my PT or my doctor can really give me a good reason why I was injured.  I was only running around 10mpw (2-3 days/week).  Never on consequetive days.  Cross training with biking and swimming.  The only thing they could figure was that I didn't have enough strength in my muscles and tendons to deal with the impact of running. 

So I was started on strength training exercises in addition to other treatments.  At first I was doing the exercises 5 days/week.  Later as I started to run again, my legs would get too tired so it was scaled back to 3 days/week.  I have been running 3 miles pain free since November/December.  The problem is that the tendon is still very sore if I press on it.  It is also sore when I first get up and moving if I have been sitting for awhile.  So while it feels good when I am working out, it is sore at other times in the day (but not consistently so).  I made a deal with my PT that I would not go beyond 3-3.5 miles running/3 days a week until the tendon felt normal.  January I dropped off on my leg exercises just a bit and have gone down to 2 sessions/week.

Now here is the interesting part.  Last week I wasn't feeling 100% and while I continued to run and have done 3 runs in the last 7 days, I have not done any of my leg exercises.  Well, things could change any day, but this is the BEST my legs have felt in months.  They aren't tired this week.  My Achilles tendon feels better than it has for a long time.  Not normal, but oh so close.

So where does that leave me with doing my strength training for my legs?  Seems like 2 days of strength plus 3 days of running is too much?  I don't know.  It puzzles me some because everything I have read and been told tells me I need to do these exercises to help my tendon.  But then I know what my body is telling me too.

Any thoughts?

 



2007-02-07 6:19 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
I say listen to what your body is telling you.

Personally I find that the more often I run, the fewer running injuries I have. There's a point of diminishing returns as far as volume, but frequency seems to "condition" my legs.

YMMV

scott
2007-02-08 1:33 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

The listen to my body method is what I am leaning toward.  It's just so hard to skip all those exercises when it has been ingrained in my tiny pea brain to do them. 

FYI  Had another excellent feeling good run this morning.

2007-02-08 2:40 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
I havent had the same injury problems but I understand your issue of strength training vs. running. For me I cant work my legs out hard and run alot in the same week. I try to split the two goals up. One week I run 4 days a week and just do light leg work once that week. The next week I just run 2 days and strength train the legs hard two days. I do the exact same thing with upper body workouts/swimming. It really works well for me because while I can work hard on tri training I still can build muscle and prevent injury. Hope that helps...
2007-02-08 4:03 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
What kind of leg exercises are you doing?
2007-02-08 5:09 PM
in reply to: #684447

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

VeganMan - 2007-02-08 5:03 PM What kind of leg exercises are you doing?

I have a list and I usually pick about 4-5 to do in a session.  mmmmm, let me see?

There are calf raises that I do with my toes on the edge of the step and let my heel SLOWLY drop down and then raise back up.  I do these both single leg and double leg.

There is another where I stand on an 8" step, stand on one leg and step down with the other leg and BARELY touch the heel and then stand up again.  It's kind of like a partial squat in a way.  One leg, then the other.

Toe walking and heel walking.  Toe walking I carry 10 lbs in each hand.  Heel walking is with no added weight.

Jumping rope.  Usually about 5 minutes.

Balancing on one leg until fatigue usually while doing some movement with my free leg or the rest of my body. Takes about 3 minutes until I start to feel the fatigue in my lower leg.  Hey it was about 2 minutes when I first started back in September so that has improved.

I was doing jump ups on a step and jump downs.  But the steps I use are covered with ice right now.  So I do jumps in a series on the rubberized floor at the Y.  This REALLY works the quads.  At least that's where I feel it.

Toe points using a stretch cord.

There might be others, but I can't think of them right now.  The calf raises and partial squat like thingies I do pretty much every time.  Like I said, I don't do every single one in every session, but I spend about 20-30 minutes working my legs depending on how much time I have.  The serial jumps and jump rope are higher impact so I'll pick one or the other, not both.

It just doesn't seem like a whole lot, but it sure seems to be additive with the running.



2007-02-09 8:29 AM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
IMO, that is too much calf work...I do zero isolated calf work. I do full body workouts and work all major muscle groups that way, including the calves. I think stretching out your tendon is more important at this time than "exercising" it, and if it means you have to do light stretching so there is no pain, then that's what you do.
You can do full squats, lunges, and step ups which all will use the calf muscle, but focus on the biggest leg muscles. Stay away from leg extensions, they are poison.
If you can jump rope without any pain that's is great as it is a great full body workout and one of my favorite exercises too.
2007-02-09 10:10 AM
in reply to: #684522

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
Are you applying ice to your tendon, especially after you run and do your strength exercises? So far you haven't mentioned anything about the wonder drug, ice.

Keep doing your leg strengthening exercises, but it sounds like you may be over-doing them. When you stopped for a week you experienced something you have probably become unfamiliar with... rested legs. This will of course feel good, but only until you start to loose the conditioning your strength training has given you. So, get back to those exercises, but maybe tone them down a little. What's important to remember is that you are strengthening the supportive muscles, tendons and other connective tissues to make for an all-around stronger, more injury resistant lower leg. And apply ice after all your training sessions, plus once or twice a day, until long after any kind of pain has stopped.
2007-02-09 5:35 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

Ice, yes!  I have iced, iced and then iced some more.  Actually, I have religiously iced daily until about 1 1/2 weeks ago when the outside temps dropped to single digits and below.  I do outside chores on the farm and come in to warm up.  My drafty old farm house is rather chilly inside.  I was good about putting ice on my body parts with temps as low as 20 degrees, but now I just can't mentally handle it.  All I am trying to do is stay warm.

THANKS TO ALL!  for some really great feedback.  I am going to start back up at lower volume.  One other thing I am going to try after talking to a number of people is to pair my leg exercise day with my run day that is before my rest day.  LOL!  For example, usually Tuesday mornings I do a 30 minute swim followed by a 30 minute run.  I could do my leg exercises Tuesday evening and the Wednesday is often a total rest day.  Or I could run Sunday am, do exercises Sun. pm and then Mondays are a swim only day.  That way I get a couple days a week where I am totally resting my legs.

Anyways, I am excited to give it a go.  I'll see what happens.  Thanks again!!!!!!

2007-02-09 7:00 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention
defiantly pair running with weights. If you run three or four days a week and lift weights 2 or 3 days a week your legs are going to be done very quick....
2007-02-09 9:09 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

I'm struggling with the same injury, but for a shorter time. My PT has changed up on what I'm doing lately. It used to be I'd do excercises 2x a day which meant staggered squats back toe turned in and out I'd do 30 toe in and 30 toe out..so 120 each leg each day. Plus heel off the stairs stuff.

Now I'm doing hard strength training at PT 3x a week for about an hour and only doing easy recovery stuff on the opposite days. I'm concerned about doing to much to soon as this was an overuse injury caused by new running technique that is supposed to make me avoid injuries...my body didn't adjust well...

One thing I learned is that I am stronger on one side than the other and I kind of cheat while doing things on my left side. The PT has me doing single leg strength stuff in order to reteach my body how to do things correctly and strengthen my left side. Difference could be from back surgery years ago, current injury or a host of other issues.

Do you have Plantar Fasciatis too? I sleep with a homemade sock that keeps my foot in the normal 90 degree angle....one soccer sock on and another pinned from knee and then again on my toe.

When I'm inflammed I ice 2 minutes then put in hot water 2 minutes for a total of 20 minutes which helps drain things...my coach, orthopedic and PT all agree that is a good way to go...end with icing.

Seems like a long time to recover and the question is why? Have you considered a second opinion to see if anything else is going on? I wish I had the answer to get you back to your old self quickly!



2007-02-09 10:03 PM
in reply to: #683314

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Subject: RE: strength training and injury treatment/prevention

I am a believer in including strength training with the swim, bike, and run.   It is important to have a strong core, as well as equalizing your strength on both sides of your body.  And it is as important to strengthen the short muscles, as the large ones.  Your feet, ankles, knees and hips take quite a beating while running (and biking), and strengthening those areas will help prevent injury. 

So my advice is too keep doing the exercises.  Your body feels good because it is strong, as a result of the exercise.  If you minimize it, or stop all together, you will set yourself up to reinjure your tendon.  Or, another part of your body.

Based on what my personal trainer, Chris, has told me, doing strength a couple times a week, and making sure you stretch properly should help you a lot.  Also, take it easy with your training for a week each month.  Do light exercise and cardio.  That gives your body some time to rest and recover.

Following this regime has certainly helped me with my back issues.  Hope it gives you some food for thought.  Stay strong!

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