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Giving Money to Homeless
OptionResults
Yes - I give money to all1 Votes - [2.33%]
Maybe -- Depends on my mood or if I have a change18 Votes - [41.86%]
Maybe - Depends on how the person asks3 Votes - [6.98%]
No - It only enables their lifestyle. Want money - get a job.21 Votes - [48.84%]

2007-04-24 2:21 PM
in reply to: #774622

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Pro
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Evanston,
Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
GolfMark - 2007-04-24 12:02 PM
CitySky - 2007-04-24 9:25 AM On a tangent, knowing a large percentage of the Oakland & Berkeley homeless when I was in college did come in handy sometimes, when I was traveling around by bus to sketchy neighborhoods in particular.  It seemed there was always someone who knew me by name looking out for me. 

 

I went to Berkeley and for four years I saw many of the same homeless there. They could have worked (I think) but they liked smoking pot and dropping acid (stereotypes) instead of working.

This was certainly true to varying degrees of some of the people I'm thinking of - hustling drifters, some of the street kids.

It WASN'T true of the stalwart single dad doing the best he could to raise two joyful and beautiful children while trying to line up work and acces needed services.  These were absolutely beautiful children - loved and confident at 2 and 4 years old, even though they were all sleeping in a car when I knew them. 

It wasn't true of most of the single moms hauling their kids from temporary shelter to temporary shelter either.  It certainly wasn't true of the mentally ill women who should have been on meds and were subject to rape with alarming frequency.  Mentally ill can only be hospitalized against their will in this country for 72 hours unless they "pose a danger to themselves or others."  Being ridiculously endangered by sleeping outside doesn't count.

But yeah, the folks you're thinking of... other options were obviously available.  Situations vary.



2007-04-24 2:36 PM
in reply to: #773338

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Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
All situations are unique.

I am stereotyping.

Sterotyping or pre-judging is wrong.

I wouldn't want to be pre-judged on my race, religion, nationality, etc.

Yet, I sill do it.

I read somewhere that it is embedded in human nature to stereotype. When we were cavemen (ah the glory days) we had to make quick judgments about situations and other cavemen.

The beauty of our intelligence is that we can try to overcome some of instincts that are hardwired into our system.

Cheers




2007-04-24 3:04 PM
in reply to: #774854

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
GolfMark - 2007-04-24 2:03 PM

ASA22 - 2007-04-24 11:19 AM

And just out of curiosity what are these programs that "don't perpetuate homelss[ness] but end it" that you are in favor of?

It's sad that you let others take your compassion away from you.  Compassion is fully yours to give, no one can take that away from you unless of course you let them.  And, likewise i stand by my statement (Jesus' statement actually) that it's easy to have compassion for those that have a good life and don't offend our sensibilities.  But, they really don't need our compassion.  It's precisely the people that are down and out, are wretched, are scorned, are ridiculed, are austrisized, are on the outside, that need our compassion.



Programs that help them get a job. As someone noted, many homeless refuse that.

Giving them food helps them for the moment. And makes the giver feel good for that moment. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it doesn't solve the bigger issue.

Teach a man to fish...



I couldn't agree more.

Let's be clear about something here -- the people who are on the street day after day after day begging for change and sleeping on the sidewalk, bottle of whatever in hand, are the ones I'm talking about. To avoid generalizing I'll go so far as to say the four or five homeless guys that sleep in the bus stop in front of my building or just mill around the neighborhood all day -- and it's a nice neighborhood in downtown Chicago, which is why they're there -- are the ones I'm talking about.

The women who've taken their kids into hiding from a spouse isn't the person I'm speaking of when I say I don't give them money or food. It's likely a battered woman with a child is at the shelter or turning to a church for help. That said, if she were on the street I would say `no' to her also because to me she'd be just another bum on the sidewalk. Don't blame me for my hardened heart -- I used to give until I started getting harrassed -- blame the people who asked for money every time I passed them walking to and from work and got cursed for not giving my money to them.
2007-04-24 4:02 PM
in reply to: #774854

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Elite
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Venture Industries,
Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
GolfMark - 2007-04-24 3:03 PM
ASA22 - 2007-04-24 11:19 AM And just out of curiosity what are these programs that "don't perpetuate homelss[ness] but end it" that you are in favor of?

 

It's sad that you let others take your compassion away from you.  Compassion is fully yours to give, no one can take that away from you unless of course you let them.  And, likewise i stand by my statement (Jesus' statement actually) that it's easy to have compassion for those that have a good life and don't offend our sensibilities.  But, they really don't need our compassion.  It's precisely the people that are down and out, are wretched, are scorned, are ridiculed, are austrisized, are on the outside, that need our compassion.

Programs that help them get a job. As someone noted, many homeless refuse that. Giving them food helps them for the moment. And makes the giver feel good for that moment. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it doesn't solve the bigger issue. Teach a man to fish...

Ahh yes, the jobs programs...And where does the homeless person live while they are working their minimum wage job?  Do some simple math...the average cost of an apartment where I live is $750 a month.  Figure most require first, last and security deposit to move in that's about $2250.  Then a deposit for electricity which down here is $150.  So just to move into their own place it will cost $2400 just to set foot in the door.  How long working minimum wage would it take to earn this in take home pay?  And all that time the homeless person lives where?  A shelter?   And while you're right that many homeless refuse job training, many also do not refuse job training.

2007-04-24 4:16 PM
in reply to: #775088

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Sherman Oaks, CA
Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
ASA22 - 2007-04-24 2:02 PM

Ahh yes, the jobs programs...And where does the homeless person live while they are working their minimum wage job?  Do some simple math...the average cost of an apartment where I live is $750 a month.  Figure most require first, last and security deposit to move in that's about $2250.  Then a deposit for electricity which down here is $150.  So just to move into their own place it will cost $2400 just to set foot in the door.  How long working minimum wage would it take to earn this in take home pay?  And all that time the homeless person lives where?  A shelter?   And while you're right that many homeless refuse job training, many also do not refuse job training.


They bunk up in one of those cheesy motels that cost like a couple a hundred a week. There are scores of people who do it.

I don't even know what programs are out there. Maybe they are working and there would be 3x the homeless population there is now without them.

My data points were from extremely casual direct observation that may be tainted coupled with some of the posts above from people I never met

Cheers

2007-04-24 4:21 PM
in reply to: #775088

Elite Veteran
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Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
I don't give money to the homeless.  This is a decision I made, based on the fact that I know my community, and for reasons I won't go into, I am intimately familiar with what kinds of programs are available to the less fortunate in my community.  Based on this, I know that in order for someone to appear on a street corner around here -  (an extremely rare sight indeed) -  with a sign saying "Work for food" or whatever - that person has to be very motivated to be on that street corner, instead of the multitude of other, much more productive activities he could be involved in if he has a sincere desire to improve his circumstances, which he is indicating that he does.  It's definitely a geographic issue as much as anything else.  All homeless people are not created equal.


2007-04-24 7:49 PM
in reply to: #773338

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Master
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West Jordan, UT
Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless

I don't give as much to the homeless/panhandlers as I should.   Sure, you never know if they are truly needy or if they will use it for drugs, but does that matter?  Who are we to judge?  I just feel like even if a person is making a good living panhandling or using the money for substance abuse, God will still give me points for being charitable and because of my good intentions.   It is easy to say they deserve to be in their situation and could get out if they really wanted to, but how do you know that?  A couple of really bad months and anyone could be on the street. 

 

2007-04-24 10:24 PM
in reply to: #774870

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Coach
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Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless
hangloose - 2007-04-24 1:08 PM

Marvarnett - 2007-04-24 1:49 PM

hangloose,

I can see your point but I disagree. I would like to think (I hope I never find out) that all was taken from me today that I would get up, dust myself off and start again. I would apply at every single place that I could, scrub toilets, pick up chewing gum, etc. I would like to think that I would apply for any and all programs that are available.

I don't think someone is fine today and homeless tomorrow. Even the abused PARENT (not just mother) that takes their kids out of an abusive relationship has options. Shelters, friends, relatives, churches, strangers. For me, there would be no pride issue. It's only about what I have to do for my family.

But like I said...I hope I never find out.

Uh-huh. And you have every right to disagree. I hope you never find out either. The strongest person/personality I have ever known in my life cracked and had a nervous breakdown right in front of me from the pressure of business and supporting his family. Never in a million years would I have thought this possible. The man was a rock. Had he not had his family to support him who knows what would have happened.

I had a lot of potential scenarios typed out about how it could happen but I don't even like writing them. Having built up our company that supports our whole family from scratch I come from stock that feels as confident in our own ability to recover from anything as you do in yours, Dan. My point is that something could happen to take that ability, or at least your confidence in that ability, away from you. Either physical or mental. I guess we'll have to leave it at that.



I don't think the two of you are disagreeing at all. In both situations you are saying that something could happen to interfere with your current livlihood and that you would have either the means, willpower or SUPPORT to continue on and not be homeless. Support of family that takes someone in or lends money is a huge, huge asset for everyone and is something many homeless either don't have, or refuse for some reason.

One thing that most homeless people DO have in common is poor self image. They see themselves as losers, homeless, disadvantaged, disabled, druggees, alcholics, violent, can't stay in a relationship, pisses friends off, loses friends, etc, etc. Programs that help return self-esteem to homeless are successful in many ways and they are not always tangible to outsiders. Helping someone see their own value is the best way that someone can "teach someone to fish."

One of our favorite stories was of a man who lived behind an abandoned building. His sleeping area was surrounded with all kinds of trash...his own, others, trash the city didn't pick up. He had all of his belongings here including clothes and a framed photo of his mother. After getting to know him and gaining his trust, we helped him pick up all the garbage around his 'home', put it into trash bags and get rid of it. This transformed him. No longer living IN garbage, he no longer identified or associated with it. His self-esteem shot through the roof. He decided it was time to get off the streets and sought out some help. After a few weeks of living in a low rent apartment, he realized that he was missing his photo of his mother. No...it wasn't thrown out with the garbage! The founder of our group, a physician, drove the man down there, rooted around and they found the photo of his mother.

If you are ever in pitsburgh, you can see a memorial that we host to all the deceased homeless on the bridge pillor of blvd of the allies where it crosses over 2nd avenue.
2007-04-24 10:36 PM
in reply to: #773338

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Giving Money to Homeless

I do not, ever, judge the homeless.  It is not possible for me to know their entire story... their childhood, and how they ended up homeless.  I do know however how easy it is to fall from a high secure place in a career... to nothing...just by a few choices that you swore were the right ones.. well they weren't.  Therefore, I don't judge... I don't judge any homeless person I see... in fact, I try to look them in the eye and smile to them... because they are human and they deserve every bit of respect that any other person on this earth does...

and yes I do give to the homeless.  I make an effort to wrap the 2nd half of a sandwich or donuts at work that didn't get eaten that day,to give to the homeless.  I will order an extra coffee out of the shop and give it to a homeless person.  If I have a free dollar or a $5.00 bill in my purse, I might give it to one one day. 

I don't give everday to everyone, but I do give often... 

I don't pretend to know their story, and I don't know their story... I just know when I give them food and I turn around, they are eating it, and that's enough for me to know I've done the right thing.

a saying that I repeat to myself all the time... "there but for the Grace of God go I"... in other words, don't ever assume you won't end up in someone's else's shoes...because really, if life, you have very little control of that... so bless everyone ... I think most of us are doing the best we can.



Edited by pigfinn 2007-04-24 10:45 PM
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