General Discussion Triathlon Talk » hills are my limiter Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2004-09-20 6:40 AM

User image

Extreme Veteran
356
1001001002525
Dorset
Subject: hills are my limiter
i have a problem sort of i am actually ok at climbing hills on the bike in that i can overtake people often on them but relative to my time that is no good, i need to be able to take them at good speed not 10mph, strength is ok but it needs speed

anyone got any good tips on how to be a consistent rider even with hills?

thanks

andy


2004-09-20 6:49 AM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Elite
2468
20001001001001002525
Racine, WI
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

Hi Ginger...some people say use strength and just grind up 'em, but what works for me is to go into a lower gear and "spin" up them...meaning use a low enough gear that you can still keep your cadence relatively high.  I never counted my cadence going up a hill, but I try hard not to let it drop too much from wherever I was before the climb.  I'm faster this way and there is A LOT less fatigue on the legs...so much better for the run

Something to remember though...drop into your smaller chain ring  BEFORE you begin the climb.  If you have to shift down during a climb easeoff of the pedals a little to take the pressure off. Much gentler for your bike.

Then just practice practice practice.



Edited by CindyK 2004-09-20 6:50 AM
2004-09-20 7:28 AM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
Definitely spin up hills. Make cycling up hills at a good cadence part of your training schedule. Find a very difficult climb in your area that is one or one and a half miles in length. I would not suggest that you start in you lowest gear though. Start in your third gear or so--my preference is third--at your best cadence and try to keep it up. As has been pointed out, it will drop somewhat. Whatever cadence you feel comfortable at, adopt it for hills and work at perfecting it. Eventually, you will work it up to a higher number. Another good "trick" to practice during hill training is to drop into a higher gear or two about 100 meters or so before reaching the summit and sprinting the remainder of the way. It is an effective demoralizer for the competition and a good moral booster for yourself. Also, you build up more speed for that all important downhill after.
2004-09-20 8:30 AM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Master
2381
2000100100100252525
Frisco, Texas
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

I agree with the other BT'ers...spinning is the best way to get up a hill.  You might also try alternating sitting and standing.  If you are a heavy rider, it's recommended that you sit and spin up the hill...that's more efficient.  If you are an extremely light rider then standing and spinning most of the way up a hill is OK.  In between , alternate.  Hill repeats are a good way to improve technique and speed on a hill.  Find a hill you have ridden, ride up then back down and repeat.  Try to find the fastest gear/spin/sitting-standing combination.

TJ

2004-09-20 8:36 AM
in reply to: #63984

User image

Extreme Veteran
443
10010010010025
Manitoba, Canada
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
zia_cyclist - 2004-09-20 7:30 AM

I agree with the other BT'ers...spinning is the best way to get up a hill.  You might also try alternating sitting and standing. 

I love getting out of the saddle on hills - pure fun!

I know the down side of possible muscle glycogen depletion etc. - but you can't beat it for a feeling of power and exhilaration!

2004-09-20 8:53 AM
in reply to: #63986

User image

Master
2447
200010010010010025
Marietta, Ga
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

I hear ya cluckin', big chicken.

Hills are what will separate the good from the ordinary in a race.  I've made a point of designing routes with nice hills so I can continually work on my form, cadence, and climbing strength.  There are any number of drills and such you can practice and I would recommend investing in a book or two that can help you through your training.



2004-09-20 9:29 AM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Champion
6786
50001000500100100252525
Two seat rocket plane
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

I disagree with the advice that spinning a small(er) gear is always the "best" way to get up a hill. There is no one best way to climb all hills. A five mile 10% grade will take a different technique than a series of short 500 yard rollers. Likewise, different riders will have differing results based on their body type and riding style.

The trick to going fast, no matter what the terrain is to use the biggest grear you can turn at an efficient cadence. Thus, the way to get faster is to increase the size of the gear you can turn without losing efficency. Over-gear hill repeats are a great way to build the strength it is going to take to climb faster. Just be careful that you don't do too many too often and hurt your knees.

2004-09-20 9:33 AM
in reply to: #64011

User image

Extreme Veteran
356
1001001002525
Dorset
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
ride like..... that makes sense, as surely if u spin in too low a gear u will lose power, and then speed so hopefully if power can be maintained it will lead to more consistant riding?

see the prob i often have is i am whizzing along at about 22mph on a fast flat then hit a hill and bye bye goes the speed...

lots of useful info so far peeps keep it coming
2004-09-20 10:58 AM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
I agree and also disagree with some of what "ridelikeyoustoleit" has to say. True enough, "different riders will have differing results based on their body type and riding style", but one has to begin somewhere to discover what that riding style is. With all due respect, "spinning" is not the only way to get up a hill but it is the most efficient way. "500 yard rollers"can be negotiated by one's momentum along. However, longer steeper hills require a different approach. The gear used to go up a hill depends on the individual cyclist's strength and, of course, the grade and length of the hill in question. Using the biggest grear you can turn at an efficient cadence sounds good in theory but it could have detrimental effects, especially in the knees, for beginners. It is best to to start with a lower gear and work on one's cadence. Thus, through training, one can build up to a higher gear.


2004-09-20 1:51 PM
in reply to: #64056

User image

Champion
6786
50001000500100100252525
Two seat rocket plane
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

Mach (I can call you Mach???) :-) I don't think we are too far apart in what we are saying. The original question had to do with how to get faster on hills. The answer is to go to a higher gear, but keep a good cadence. Too often I see newer (not absolute beginners) riders under-gearing themselves before even getting onto a hill and flailing away at the pedals like Wile E. Coyote in the granny gears, because someone told them to spin up a hill.

Granted, there's a good bit of hyperbole in the above. You are also absolutely correct in that rollers require a very different technique than Cols or Walls or whatever you want to call mountains. In my advice to do over-gear hill repeats, I have included the standard "watch out for your knees" advice.

There's an Eddy Merckx quote .....

When asked if he preferred "small gears fast, or big gears slow?" Eddy said "big grears fast"

Now granted, and I am guilty of assuming that one has perhaps more training base than one actually does, but I'll stand by my advice that to get faster, you have to turn bigger gears, without compromising an effficient cadence. I yield that one must first establish an efficient cadence.

2004-09-20 2:03 PM
in reply to: #64162

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: Hills
Ride, I think that we are saying the same thing but in different ways. Eddy, who is my absolute favourite cyclist, was quite right; riding a big gear "fast" is indeed the best way of going faster whether on the flats or on a hill. However, in order to arrive at that exalted "big gear fast cadence" plateau on steep hills, one needs to build up to it. I found this out the hard way. When I first got a ten speed road bike back in 1970, I rode my bike on the biggest gear all the time, up hills, down hills, in traffic, on the track. I did get everywhere fast and wound up with huge quads; I also wound up with a badly torn ligament in my left knee and a slightly torn ligament in the right. Then, I discovered how to improve my cycling skills by using proper cadence and s l o w l y working my way up to higher gears.

And, of course, you can call "Mach" :-)


2004-09-20 2:16 PM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Elite
2468
20001001001001002525
Racine, WI
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

*chuckling* ..from the outside looking in we are all saying basically the same thing....use a small enough gear to keep an efficient cadence, high enough gear to get up the darn thing fst as possible!  I wish I hadn't used the term "spinning" cuz I really don't like it.  It implies that you should "undergear" before going up, and if you do that you will most certainly lose speed and momentum.  NOt very accurate on my part either and I apologize....

Although I prefer to sit for at least the first 2/3 of most hills...I use up too much energy when I stand.  I think that's more personal preference.  Standing up about 2/3 of the way up and passing other riders is fun too  

Ride_it...what do you mean by "over-gear hill repeats"?

2004-09-20 2:24 PM
in reply to: #64176

User image

Champion
6786
50001000500100100252525
Two seat rocket plane
Subject: over-gear hill repeats
Find a hill that will take you 1-3 minutes to climb. Climb it in a gear that's a little bit too high. Recover 1 min or 30 seconds,  Repeat. Start with 1 set of 3 reps once per week and build from there , adding no more thna 1 set per week (maybe only one rep). Eventually you'll go up a gear too.
2004-09-20 2:25 PM
in reply to: #63958

User image

Elite
2468
20001001001001002525
Racine, WI
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
oh....ok...I just call them hill repeats I guess...but thank you!
2004-09-20 2:38 PM
in reply to: #63958

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2004-09-20 2:49 PM
in reply to: #63958

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
How do I not slow down when I hit a hill? Well, first of all you have to order the large container of "Acme Super Quad" pills, the kind that Wile E. Coyote bought at one time in one of those Road Runner cartoons.....


2004-09-20 3:13 PM
in reply to: #63958

Master
1670
10005001002525
Harvard, Illinois
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
One thing that I did that helped me increase my speed up the hills was to do my complete bike workout in one gear. The higher the gears the harder it is but after doing that a few times you really feel good when up the hills when your not doing a single gear workout.

Mike
2004-09-20 3:43 PM
in reply to: #63958

Member
24

Versailles, KY
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
SQUATS! I just completed my first tri and the only difference between my training partner and myself is squats that I have been doing 1 day per week at the gym and I came from ~ 100 yds behind on the last hill and zoomed past her!
;-)
2004-09-20 4:08 PM
in reply to: #64188

Expert
1279
1000100100252525
Northern VA
Subject: RE: over-gear hill repeats

FIND A HILL????????  Have you ever been in this area?????? LOL 

Our choices for hills - driveway entrances, speedbumps and overpasses on the interstate (illegal to bike). 

OK, I'll stop whining now.

2004-09-20 4:09 PM
in reply to: #64258

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2004-09-20 4:09 PM
in reply to: #63958

Expert
774
5001001002525
England
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter

Great thread and great advice - I'm in the same situation with hills so appreciate the expertise shared as well.

Just a couple of quick additional questions:

1.   should these hill repeats be included in longer endurance rides or should they be in specific high intensity sessions?

2.  can these hill workouts be used year round or are they just in key build periods?

Thanks



2004-09-20 4:43 PM
in reply to: #63958

Elite
2468
20001001001001002525
Racine, WI
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
Getting ready for my last (2nd of two but doesn't that make me sound experienced?) I did them about once/week for 2 or so months prior to my race (which had big, mean, ugly hills in it...mostly on the run but a few on the bike).  I usually either mixed them in with acceleration workouts or did just hill workouts.  This wasn't really based on anything scientific....the acceleration workouts were in my training plan (the one from this website) and I knew I had hills in my future.
2004-09-20 5:17 PM
in reply to: #63958

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by domlazz 2004-09-20 5:21 PM
2004-09-20 10:39 PM
in reply to: #63986

Master
2381
2000100100100252525
Frisco, Texas
Subject: RE: hills are my limiter
Yes! The proverbial "dancing on the pedals".
New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » hills are my limiter Rss Feed