Cyclists that run red lights (Page 2)

WOW! I am shocked by the extremes on both sides.

I have come up on rural lights and leaned my bike way over to try to get a green light. I waited 3-5 (but felt like 10) minutes before giving up and going. That was very early on in my riding and there was a hill just off to the right, so I would have prefered to have the light stop anyone going 60mph over the hill.

Now a couple of you imply that you would have waited indefinitely for a green which seems crazy to me. I guess if you are going to be that strict you could hop off and walk across (there is no pedestrian light out in the country).

I stop for right turn on red as well, because that is what other users should expect. I get the feeling that some would just keep going on a right turn figuring that traffic will pass them on the left the same as if they had been on that road the whole time. But, if I'm driving and I seen someone (car or bike) coming perpendicular and I have a green light, I expect that they will stop. Imagine how reckless it appears to see someone come up from a side street and turn right at speed as though they had a green light. Cars scare me when they do that, because I don't know that they are looking at all.

The point of traffic laws is to facilitate the interaction of road users, keeping everyone safe and moving traffic along in an orderly manner. Following the traffic laws makes cyclists predictable. Car drivers have a right to expect that bikes will stop and then go when its clear. Just as bikes have a right to expect that a car coming up behind them will pass when its safe or a car pulling out will respect the bike's right of way and not pull out right in front of them.

I think behaving predictably helps keep me safe, but I'm flexible enough to do what I need to do in a given situation, such as a red light with no one around.

Thank you, DMarkSwan, for saying what I wish I had said first. 

And to clarify my position on this, I do not BLOW through red lights like in the example from the OP.  I do, however, proceed through a red light in situations when there are no other cars around and I have stopped and looked.   I am also careful to signal before I change lanes or turn, etc.

I will probably never be able to understand anyone whose argument is "why do you care?", when it comes to frustrations around the breaking the law.  I like the law and I like order and I obey it because it's all I've got, and I would like everyone else to obey it too, thank you, because then my rights are protected as well.  And mostly it is for the reasons that DMarkSwan states.  Oh, and I would prefer that everyone obey the "don't murder people" laws and the ones that say "don't steal my stuff" too.  If that helps clarify the position at all. 

Regarding cyclists, I also want to be able to have an argument with anyone who says I shouldn't be able to ride on the road with cars.  I want to be able to say that I am obeying the traffic laws and am allowed to share the road.  I don't want them to be able to say that cyclists are always breaking the laws and not sharing politely, like the example cyclist in the OP. 

I personally do NOT blow through either Stop signs or Lights in most cases.  I have been known on more than one occation to roll a stop sign, generally it is when there is no one around.  I have been signed to go through on many occations by drivers. 

Lights never do I just BLOW through them, I have run several in my area.  Most after sitting waiting for the little metal in my bike to trip the loop.  But if you can't trip the loop your ride is going to stop right there if you don't run it.  I actually had a light that I started to run, flip on me and go green when I figured there was no way I was tripping the light.  I have also been at the front of a line of cars, and motioned the first car to roll up for me.  That way THEY trip the light, some will and some give me this odd look "What the heck are you wanting???"  I figure if THEY want to roll, they need to roll up.

I had a really really scary moment on my bike just yesterday.  I was stopped at a red light.....definitely no running it as the street we were crossing was a 3-lane one way with lots of traffic going at least 35-40mph.  Or so I thought.  A group of three cyclists came up from the other side and one of them darts across the intersection.  I don't think he ever even touched his brakes!  Two cars (who still had the green light) had to slam on their brakes for this idiot.  Once they'd stopped, the first guys buddy apparently decided he should go too so between the two of them they totally blocked the intersection.  (The third guy waited for the light to change).  I was just so shocked to see somebody be that gutsy/stupid on a bike!  Scared the crap out of me b/c I was just sure I was about to watch a cyclist go underneath a car.  I was a bit embarassed to be a cyclist at the moment too, even though I clearly wasn't with them since I was going the other way.  I wanted to shout something to them but I think my bottom jaw was still down on the ground b/c I couldn't seem to get any words out.  I'm sure none of you who run red lights would be that complacent, but still....

As for me....if it's a sensor light that I can't trip then I'll run it once I'm sure no cars are coming.  I have had a couple of times where the light just took forever to change and I have eventually just gone, but that's pretty rare.  I do a rolling slow-down and look for all stop signs, and I'll stop altogether if there's cars.  I tend to slow down a bit at every intersection even if the other street has the stop sign because i'm afraid ppl in cars might not see me coming if I'm going fast. 

Here's another question for you all....If you come up to a stop light or sign where there is a line of cars waiting to go, do you go up the shoulder on the right to get to the front of the line?  I've seen lots of ppl do this lately but to me it seems stupid b/c it just means that the cars will again have to pass you without much room to do it.  Unless there's a bike lane that goes all the way up to the light....that's a whole different story....but otherwise I figure if i'm riding on the street I should stay in the same lane as the cars do and not try to sneak up the side.  

Well it gets their attention, most of them don't hear it anyway as they've already whizzed passed the lights while I am still sitting there. If a car blows through the light, I also honk. It's a WARNING. Either that or they are wearing IPODs. It's just a death wish really and if that's what they want, then fine...but if I hit one of them? Then what?  And this is a busy intersection, there are no crosswalks..so that's not the point here anyway.

Cyclists that run red lights...

I don't know the legality of it, but seems like riding up the right hand side of a stopped line of cars is asking to be killed.  Cars do not expect you to be there.  I'm with you lil turtle.  I will actually pull into the center of the lane and take my spot behind the last car.  Then when traffic starts again, I will move back to the right hand side of the road to make it easier for cars behind me to pass.

And in case I was one who sounded like I sit and wait at lights forever, well I don't.   I will go if there is no traffic and if it is a vehicle activated light.  If it is a regular light, I kind of judge the situation, but I would say most times I will wait.  Sometimes I admit, I don't

And I did earn some good cyclist karma points for us all tonight.  I was riding home from work and approached a stop sign at a main highway.  There was a truck traveling in the same direction I was going to be going after I turned onto the main road.  I could have easily done a rolling stop, turn on the highway and been safe, but then the truck would have to pass me right off the bat.  I decided to error on the side of caution and stopped at the stop sign.  Behind the truck were two sherrif deputy cars.  I got to watch them pass as I was dutifully stopped at the stop sign.   

"...I consider myself half-pedestrian half-car when I am on the road cycling..."

x3 - I don't "blow" through lights, but handle them as I would as a pedestrian - if it's clear and safe I go, if not I wait...

I'm really religious about (most) other traffic laws though - I avoid riding in the wrong lane or the wrong way on a one way street like the plague...

"...lawbreaking social outcasts..."

Where do I pick up my black hat? 

No, yes, yes, yes and yes.   For some weird reason I'm not a perfect person.  Do I do all those illegal things all the time?  Not even close.  BUT, I'll bet I can go through a whole day and not break one traffic law without much thought because the rules have been ingrained in my tiny little brain. 

Yes, and I'm sure if I was the one in the car who hit the cyclist, it wouldn't affect me at all. 

Following that reasoning, why care if anyone drives drunk?  If they run their car off the road and kill themselves, who cares?

I don't claim that any of us obey all the traffic laws all the time.  I certainly don't, but I do try at least.  I think as bicyclists we have a duty to be good advocates for the sport.  There are a lot of kids that read these forums that are just learning the rules of the road so to speak.  I bet most kids don't realize that cyclists are vehicles and need to follow rules.  Most of them don't even know what the rules are until they go through driver's ed.  I think we need to be good role models.  We don't need to be perfect.