General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Beginner needs some swimming advice Rss Feed  
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2007-08-15 7:17 AM

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Subject: Beginner needs some swimming advice
I am swimming my butt off in my community pool. I can't kick turn for the life of me, or at least I am still practicing at it. Regardless, I can only do a few laps before I have to stop and catch my breath. I literally have to stand up and relax a little bit then I can do more. I did 20x25 laps yesterday in a little over 20 minutes. I get sloppy towards the end and I have to force my head down to relax my neck some. I breath about every six strokes out the left side and I am also trying to practice looking up to sight where I am going. This isn't going to do me any good since I am blind without my glasses but still I might need to do this at some point so I am trying to do that. What I need some advice on is should I focus more on the kick turn and continual swimming or is taking a break every few laps good enough?


2007-08-15 7:53 AM
in reply to: #926329

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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Note - I'm not an expert swimmer, but here are my thoughts....

i'm working on bi-lateral breathing. IE breathing out of each side every three strokes. I do well for a while, but then fall into breathing every two strokes.
Every six strokes sounds like a long time to me. That could be one reason that you are out of breath. I don't do a lot of pool swimming, mostly OWS, so learning to turn the most efficient isn't that big of deal to me. If you touch the edge, turn, kick off, and return to swimming, in as smooth of motion as possible, it would seem to me, that this would be more than adequate for training for Tris.
2007-08-15 8:03 AM
in reply to: #926329

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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice

Hmmm...I've been swimming a long time, and I've never heard of a "kick turn." 'Splain, please. (I know flip turns and open turns...)

Anyway, especially for triathlon, breathing every 6 strokes is way too infrequent. Even Michael Phelps breathes every stroke (butterfly). I suspect if you start breathing every stroke or every 3rd stroke (bilateral), you'll be less out of breath.

Also, what kind of turn you do matters little. If you can do a flip turn in the pool, then great. If not, just stick to open turns, making sure you streamline nicely off the wall.

I think what you should focus on is neither the "kick turn" nor the continual swimming; rather, work on technique--that means doing a lot of drills. Swimming, unlike running or cycling, does not get better just by doing. It gets better primarily through improved technique. Check out something like Total Immersion, or if you have the opportunity, work with a swim coach/teacher or masters team.

2007-08-15 8:05 AM
in reply to: #926329

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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Kick Turn = n00b speak for flip turn sorry. lol
2007-08-15 8:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
I agree with all the posters above - don't worry about your turns for now, and breathe more. As a general comment, I'd suggest you just work on relaxing and being comfortable, don't worry about your speed. Get so that you can swim continuously and in a relaxed mannder, even if it's slower. The speed will come later. Also, on your breathing, make sure you are breathing as "normal" as possible while you swim - this means exhaling gradually while your face is underwater, rather than holding your breath then exploding air out and gasping a big breath. Many beginner swimmers don't breathe "normally" when they start, and this makes it a lot more tiring than it needs to be. Good luck!
-Matt
2007-08-15 8:15 AM
in reply to: #926372

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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
You need to practice...and have someone watch you swim to help you with your technique. Swimming is a lot of technique, but you have to put your "water dues" in. Consider having someone videotape you swimming. This is always eye opening.

Can u wear contacts when u swim? It helps so that you can see swimming.

I would not suggest breathing every stroke...swimmers typically do this when they are fatigued, at least in my experience. (I am strictly referring to freestyle, because that is the fastest stroke.)
Breath on each side (every 3 strokes). Do drills, sprint, do longer distances and you WILL improve.

Good luck.




2007-08-15 8:38 AM
in reply to: #926329

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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice

That about covers it, but I can suggest prescription goggles. With my vision, its likely I wouldn't be able to see a buoy 300 meters away.

I breath every other stroke, left side every time, although I can go four or six, I pace better breathing more often. I'm just learning to bilateral breath, but its not smooth for me yet.

2007-08-15 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Keep in mind that in a lake, there are no walls, so you will not be doing any flip-turns - so if you're not good at them, it won't matter. Just don't linger at the wall - touch off and go.
2007-08-15 9:00 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Wow thats alot to process. As yall suggest I will work more on breathing more often, exhaling underwater, and breathing every 1-3 strokes. I do find myself getting sloppy toward the end so I will break out the video camera and watch. Maybe I should check out youtube for michael phelps or someone for technique, lol. I appreciate all the advice. I will keep working at it.
2007-08-15 10:01 AM
in reply to: #926329


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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
I've got to demure on the breathing rate, at least in general. Of course my background is a sprinter so I've been trained to breath as rarely as possible. I'm breathing every fourth or sixth stroke now and every eighth stroke when I'm doing 25s.

But at the end of my swims I'm breathing every fourth stroke at best (3rd when I'm working on bilateral breathing), and sometimes every other stroke. The key thing is to breath and to exhale the entire time your face is in the water. If you're getting winded, the odds are you need to breath more often and make sure you breath deep.
2007-08-15 10:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Another possibility is asthma. The chlorine in pools can make it worse for some people. The swim was killing me so I got tested and sure enough, I had mild asthma made worse by chlorine.

However, my swim technique stunk. I had way too much drag from my poorly kicking legs. My fingers were spreading out, reducing my pull. I believe this contributed more, although I now medicate and have better form.

So my two cents, and keep in mind I am still not a very good swimmer, is take at least a few lessons, or a class, and focus on technique more than anything else. Spend plenty of time in the pool working on that technique and the endurance will come. What you don't want to do, IMHO, is to perfect bad technique. I have never heard that breathing on the left side every six strokes is good.

If you have breathing problems in the run and bike as well, get tested.


2007-08-15 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice

Like everyone else said 6 stroke is way too much.  I believe that is called hydroponic breathing and is a training technique swimmers use to build up long techniques.  Most people breath every 2 or 3 strokes depending on if you can bilateral breath.   Try this first of all.

Second, go by total immersion.  I suggest the DVD.  I own the book and it helped but the illustrations suck, I imaging the DVD is better.  Even better yet, take a clinic. They are pricey but I have heard well worth it.

I admit I was in the same boat as you probably worse a year ago.  I was not a swimmer, I could hang out in a pool all day and I could swim, but I could not lap swim.  There was no keeping my face in the water.   My first attempt was memorial day last year and I did 4 X 25mtrs with long breaks of huffing and puffing in between 25's.   This was with my face out of the water also.  Mind you at the time I could run 20 miles easy so my cardio was fine.  I slowly built up to where i could swim may 200-250 meters non-stop but probably at 2:30 per 100 (not too bad).  In September of last year I decided to do a tri that was in a pool and 300 meters.  By this time my community pool was closed so I joined a gym that had a 4ft deep pool so I had the security that I could always stand up and that seemed to help.  A month before my race I did a 300m time trial in 8:30 or about 2:30 per 100 and was not beat.  I went back a few days later and swam 750 meters and 2 days later swam 1500 and was not really tired.  Something just clicked.  I then bought TI and did some of the drills to learn balance.  I know have my time down to about 2:00 per 100 meters no matter the distance.  I could probably swim the IM distance if I did not get bored first.

My secrets I believe was 1.) slow down 2.) find a shallow pool for security 3.) a nose plug helped me greatly 4.) try TI 5.) learn balance, once that happens and you realize you won't sink you can swim forever. 6.) relax, panicing is what make you get winded IMO 7.) don't worry about turns there are no walls in lakes 8.) have fun.

2007-08-15 12:50 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
If it makes you feel any better, at the beginning of this year, I couldn't make it accross the pool (yes, I'm serious). On Friday, I swam 1600 yards without stopping. I practiced for months, and made terribly slow gains, but things have really picked up over the past 2 or 3 months. Not everyone flip-turns in pool swims, so don't sweat it if you can't. Just like you, I'd like to get better at them too - people probably assume I'm drowning as I flip over, and splash people at the end of the pool like a sea-world accident, but practice will get you there. Also, if it helps, I usually breathe every four strokes for the first 100, then every 2 after that.
2007-08-15 1:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
All I can say is keep at it. Two years ago, I couldn't even float on my back and when I was eventually swimming, I couldn't even make it 25 meters. Now, my workouts range from 2400m-3000m. It will just take time and before you know it, the lightbulb will go off in your head.
2007-08-15 1:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Congratulations on all the work you have put in. I know it is not easy.

The suggestions above should help. Like they stated - breathe every 2-3 strokes, try to have someone (a coach, good swimmer, etc) look at your stroke and offer you suggestions.

I have also found that slowing down significantly when a person is first learning to swim will help them increase their ability to swim longer distances and will allow them to focus on their stroke.

Good luck!
2007-08-15 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Reston Va??? Hey Docswim - I used to live there! (sorry to change the subject). I lived in Polo Club Village off of Sunrise Valley Drive. I grew up there - went to Dogwood, Langston Hughes, and would have gone to South Lakes had we not moved in '88.


2007-08-15 1:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
scoli121 - 2007-08-15 2:28 PM

Reston Va??? Hey Docswim - I used to live there! (sorry to change the subject). I lived in Polo Club Village off of Sunrise Valley Drive. I grew up there - went to Dogwood, Langston Hughes, and would have gone to South Lakes had we not moved in '88.


Very cool - I have Masters practice at the Lake Newport 50M pool right off of Reston Parkway 3-4 times a week. I really like Reston - so many great bike and running paths. I hear Lewsville, NC is really nice too!
2007-08-15 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
You've heard of Lewisville NC??? wow! I had no idea word of our one-traffic light town made it that far! It is nice here, a world of change from there though.
2007-08-15 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
kproudfoot - 2007-08-15 11:17 AM

Like everyone else said 6 stroke is way too much.  I believe that is called hydroponic breathing and is a training technique swimmers use to build up long techniques.  Most people breath every 2 or 3 strokes depending on if you can bilateral breath.



its called HYPOXIC breathing. (hydroponic is for growing plants, LOL!) You literally hold your breath to build up your lungs. BUT you have to slow down to do it. Try 50s - go from 3 to 5 to 7 to 9 strokes in between breaths each 50. Or if that is too hard do 25s...try it early on in your practice and then do it at the end.

to the original poster: Some other thoughts on reading this thread. its ok if you are doing a big block, you said 20 x 25s to break it up. Do 5 x 25, take 2 minutes rest, do another set and keep taking breaks. Along the way you will find that your technique will not deteriorate as much.

I agree to get the TI dvd. I started with that and loved it. It works very well! I am lucky to live near New Paltz where Terry Laughlin lives and see him all summer swimming at the lake. He is one smooth swimmer!

Don't sweat the flip turns. My husband tried them for a season and went back to open turns. I'm quicker off the wall but he is faster in general. oh well.

I breathe every 2 strokes on the left, and am teaching myself slowly to breath every 3 (bi-lateral) it kind of messes up my rhythm and i get dizzy, but it will help me to go faster.

Good Luck, and remember Dorie, from Finding Nemo...Just keep swimming!
2007-08-16 5:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice
Who am I to give advice on flip turns but Swim Coach is working me hard on them right now and a few things I have learned are

1. yes it is a hard concrete wall you are swimming towards but do not slow down as you approach, instead speed up - you need the momentum

2. give a good strong dolphin kick before you flip to really get moving

3. tuck hard into a somersault to speed yourself around

4. (this is the hard one for me) come out of the turn on your back, resist the urge to twist onto your stomach until you are close to the backstroke flags (stay deep as long as you can).

Good luck. Flip turns are cool but at this point they wind me and are not worth the effort but I hope to get more efficient at them someday.
2007-08-16 5:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Beginner needs some swimming advice

Flip turns are like icing...you don't need to do them. Focus on the stuff that is important. Many folks who have posted have done IMs some multiple and still don't do them.

Breath more no wonder you are out of breath. I breath every second stroke on my right. After 4 years of swimming I'm still trying to get the bilateral breathing down.

Work on the basics, technique is key.

Video taping yourself is good, but working with someone that knows swim technique is better. Consider hiring a coach for a lesson, going to the Masters program at your local pool, working with other triathletes (but in general we are crappy swimmers so be careful there).

Consider getting googles with corrections..some are only like $20 not exact for your prescription but better than plain goggles. 



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