General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Does it matter (Bike Question) Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2007-09-26 7:43 AM

User image

Master
2946
200050010010010010025
Centennial, CO
Subject: Does it matter (Bike Question)

A little background...

So I've been looking at Tri bikes.  Actually had a couple set up for me at the LBS to test ride.  I've been riding for about 18 years now (Roadie turned Triathlete 4 years ago), and have been riding with aerobars on my road bike for the last 4 years.  When I rode the tri bikes it is just such a different feel for me, I am questioning whether or not it will really make a diference.  In my last tri I averaged over 21 mph and have actually ridden 23+ in a tri on my road bike.  I do shorter distance races (sprints) and will probably start doing Olympic distance next year.  I just don't know if a tri bike will help my speed or running that much.  Most of my training is done alone or with my tri friends on tri bikes.  Very few group rides except the occasional recreational century or metric century ride.

I have no plans to do an IM and probably will not ever do a half (though I might try one someday).

The Question:

Should I get a tri bike or "Pimp out" my road bike (Race wheels).  I have saved the money for the new tri bike for two years and now have a pretty good fund built up so money is not the issue, I just don't want to buy it and not feel like it was worth it.  How long does it take to get used to a tri bike?  I've read about people seeing instant speed increases, but don't know if I will because the level of comfort is just so different.  I feel that a good set of race wheels on my road bike would be an instant benefit, but what about long term.

Please let me know your thoughts.

 



2007-09-26 7:58 AM
in reply to: #979461

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)

The difference in speed is largely driven by a more aero position on the tri bike.  If you can't comfortably get a more aero position, then you will probably be faster on a road bike.  However, this would make you an exception as most people seem to be able to adapt to a better position on a tri bike.

As far as running faster, that's still up in the air.  There's one study (that I'm aware of) that showed there might be some benefit to running due to the steeper position of a tri bike.  But it's far from conclusive.

2007-09-26 9:18 AM
in reply to: #979461

Regular
88
252525
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
The guy at my LBS says that race wheels is the biggest thing you can add. He suggested I do that before switching from a road bike to a tri bike. Personaly I like being in the aero position on the longer races as its a bit more comfortable. I had clip on aero bars on my road bike in the begining but I felt they made the front end of my bike a little heavy. The main thing is that you are comfortable on what you ride.
2007-09-26 12:02 PM
in reply to: #979461

User image

Extreme Veteran
707
500100100
pnw
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
You are the perfect candidate to get on a tri bike. The fit will need to be perfect but I suspect you'll gain more speed that you expect.

Your roadie back ground will translate to even faster bike splits on a TT bike. Same reason you don't see pimped out road bikes winning on TT courses in the roadie world.
2007-09-26 1:57 PM
in reply to: #979476

User image

Elite
3658
200010005001002525
Roswell, GA
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
JohnnyKay - 2007-09-26 8:58 AM

The difference in speed is largely driven by a more aero position on the tri bike.  If you can't comfortably get a more aero position, then you will probably be faster on a road bike.  However, this would make you an exception as most people seem to be able to adapt to a better position on a tri bike.

As far as running faster, that's still up in the air.  There's one study (that I'm aware of) that showed there might be some benefit to running due to the steeper position of a tri bike.  But it's far from conclusive.



Here's what Empfield wrote back in 2002:
http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/seatangle.html

In the second half of the article he talks about the study that showed a savings of 5 mins on your run in an olympic triathlon. If anyone knows of a more recent study I'd love to read it. I'm sure someone has done more work in this area in the last 5 yrs.

2007-09-26 2:12 PM
in reply to: #980130

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)

brown_dog_us - 2007-09-26 1:57 PM

Here's what Empfield wrote back in 2002: http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadings/techctr/seatangle.htmlIn the second half of the article he talks about the study that showed a savings of 5 mins on your run in an olympic triathlon. If anyone knows of a more recent study I'd love to read it. I'm sure someone has done more work in this area in the last 5 yrs.

No, that's the study I'm referring to and I'm unaware of anything that's been done to study it more closely since.  Empfield notes some limitations of the study and there's been plenty of discussion about it in the past too.  It's an interesting hypothesis and at least another reason to consider riding steep.  Just not nearly conclusive enough for me on its own.

 



2007-09-26 3:34 PM
in reply to: #979461

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
If all you plan on doing just olympic triathlons, you will not really need a tri specific bike.  Most ITU elite triathletes compete in road bikes with short aero bars. 
2007-09-26 3:43 PM
in reply to: #979579

User image

Champion
8936
50002000100050010010010010025
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)

Your guys at the LBS is trying to sell you wheels.

Voltron - 2007-09-26 9:18 AM The guy at my LBS says that race wheels is the biggest thing you can add. He suggested I do that before switching from a road bike to a tri bike. Personaly I like being in the aero position on the longer races as its a bit more comfortable. I had clip on aero bars on my road bike in the begining but I felt they made the front end of my bike a little heavy. The main thing is that you are comfortable on what you ride.

2007-09-26 3:49 PM
in reply to: #980339

User image

Expert
900
500100100100100
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
Most ITU athletes also need the added handling benefit of a road bike, because they are drafting. They also don't need the improved aerodynamics of a TT bike for the same reason. I wouldn't use ITU athletes as a reason for an AG athlete who will probably do non-drafting races to not get a TT bike.

---

From my experience, when I switched from a road bike to a TT bike my bike splits improved a little bit (~.5mph) on flat courses and actually got a tiny bit slower on very hilly courses (long, extended climbs). My run times improved by ~2-3 minutes (Olympic).
2007-09-26 3:51 PM
in reply to: #980363

User image

Champion
8540
50002000100050025
the colony texas
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
DerekL - 2007-09-26 3:43 PM

Your guys at the LBS is trying to sell you wheels.

Voltron - 2007-09-26 9:18 AM The guy at my LBS says that race wheels is the biggest thing you can add. He suggested I do that before switching from a road bike to a tri bike. Personaly I like being in the aero position on the longer races as its a bit more comfortable. I had clip on aero bars on my road bike in the begining but I felt they made the front end of my bike a little heavy. The main thing is that you are comfortable on what you ride.

bingo I think we have a winner.... are the guys telling you to get race wheels roadies or triathletes??

once I got a tri bike I could tell a difference when doing brick workouts immediately, It was less of the rubbery legs feeling for me..   it could be increased fitness gains, or a number of other things I'm sure but when I do a run after riding my tri bike it happens

2007-09-26 4:43 PM
in reply to: #979461

User image

Master
2946
200050010010010010025
Centennial, CO
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
Thanks for the input.  I will probably get the tri bike.  It is just such a different (not bad) feeling from my road bike. 


2007-09-26 5:01 PM
in reply to: #979476

Elite
2608
2000500100
Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
JohnnyKay - 2007-09-26 7:58 AM

The difference in speed is largely driven by a more aero position on the tri bike.  If you can't comfortably get a more aero position, then you will probably be faster on a road bike.  However, this would make you an exception as most people seem to be able to adapt to a better position on a tri bike.

As far as running faster, that's still up in the air.  There's one study (that I'm aware of) that showed there might be some benefit to running due to the steeper position of a tri bike.  But it's far from conclusive.

Johnny, this is very interesting. People talk about a tri bike keeping your legs "fresher" for the run as if it were a foregone conclusion, but I've always wondered about that. My understanding of tri bike geometry is that it transfers more of the work to your quads and saves your hamstrings for the run. However, whenever I ran, even when I was thinner, it was my quads that seemed to take a beating from the run. This makes sense, at least to me, since the quads must absorb the eccentric load on the run, and eccentric loading causes muscle soreness. Either that or I have a really strange running form. Either way, I don't see the point of riding a bike in a quad dominant manner, then stressing the quads eccentrically on the run. On the other hands, all those triathletes can't be wrong, can they?

2007-09-26 7:45 PM
in reply to: #980489

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)

MikeTheBear, read the Empfield article linked above.  It discusses the study that leads to everyone's belief that this is true.  It also discusses why it might be so.  But it also notes some study shortcomings.  And if you have the time/desire, you should be able to find some lengthy discussions about it on ST forums.  Basically, at best it's a possibility but certainly not a well-tested theory.

Put me down in the unconvinced camp.  But there are other good reasons to ride a tri bike anyway...like it's faster for most people. 

2007-09-26 7:52 PM
in reply to: #980363

User image

Champion
6627
5000100050010025
Rochester Hills, Michigan
Gold member
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
DerekL - 2007-09-26 4:43 PM

Your guys at the LBS is trying to sell you wheels.

Voltron - 2007-09-26 9:18 AM The guy at my LBS says that race wheels is the biggest thing you can add. He suggested I do that before switching from a road bike to a tri bike. Personaly I like being in the aero position on the longer races as its a bit more comfortable. I had clip on aero bars on my road bike in the begining but I felt they made the front end of my bike a little heavy. The main thing is that you are comfortable on what you ride.

Your bike shop guy is smoking crack. There are a gajillion posts and articles about what helps you go faster on the bike. Race wheels are well down the list, not far off trimming the length of your aerodrink straw. Seriously. Search the forums for the past articles, but I'll preview 'em.   In this order....

Great bike fit in a good position. Clips. Aero Helmet. Everything else.

2007-09-26 7:56 PM
in reply to: #980621

User image

Not a Coach
11473
5000500010001001001001002525
Media, PA
Subject: RE: Does it matter (Bike Question)
rkreuser - 2007-09-26 7:52 PM

 In this order....

Great bike fit in a good position. Clips. Aero Helmet. Everything else.

You can also count me as a non-believer on the ranking of an aero helmet in your list.  And, yes, I know what the MIT guys did.

That said, it is a relatively cheap option and I ride with one. 

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Does it matter (Bike Question) Rss Feed