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Strength training: does it add body weight??? (Page 4)
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 2007-10-09 2:40 PM in reply to: #999082 |
Master  1420   Running trails in S. Ontario |  Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight???JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 3:21 PM sbreaux - 2007-10-09 2:18 PM While those three statements may be true in that general context, the question of this thread is whether Strength training serves 3 primary purposes "in tri training". Your college material probably didn't address that. Actually, the question in this thread was whether strength training adds body weight. But we veered off that track hours ago. LOL, and actually, I was taking this in context of overall athletic training. Seems to me we have some people who are not keeping the whole thing in perspective. If any athlete that came to me and asked if they should weight train, I would say absolutely yes. Would I give them all the same cookie cutter program? Absolutely not, it has to be the right program for the individual. It all boils down to basic fundamentals in sports performance training. I think you are getting too caught up in very technical finite ideas, and losing the overall picture. |
| 2007-10-09 2:42 PM in reply to: #998213 |
Cycling Guru 15134  Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? Wasn't getting worked up on my end ...... just getting tired of: (DeadHorse.jpg) Attachments ---------------- DeadHorse.jpg (22KB - 9 downloads) |
| 2007-10-09 2:44 PM in reply to: #999132 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 2:40 PM If any athlete that came to me and asked if they should weight train, I would say absolutely yes. See, I would never say absolutely yes without having a lot more information about the athlete. Nor would I say absolutely not. |
| 2007-10-09 2:55 PM in reply to: #999143 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? Daremo - 2007-10-09 3:42 PM Wasn't getting worked up on my end ...... just getting tired of: I couldn't agree with you more. I just get concerned when people are given advice that may not be based on fact or currently valid fundamentals taught in university curriculum. As with anything, I advise people to check the facts themselves, and look at a trainer/coach's academic and experience credentials before taking any advice  Ok, next topic! |
| 2007-10-09 2:59 PM in reply to: #999173 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 3:55 PM ...... advice that may not be based on fact or currently valid fundamentals taught in university curriculum. Just because something is taught in school doesn't make it right .... that is proven time and again in the "real" world. There's a reason some professor's teach and not practice. |
| 2007-10-09 3:21 PM in reply to: #999173 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 2:55 PM You were taught at school that strenght training definitive improves performance for endurance sports or help to avoid injuries? WOW!Daremo - 2007-10-09 3:42 PM Wasn't getting worked up on my end ...... just getting tired of: I couldn't agree with you more. I just get concerned when people are given advice that may not be based on fact or currently valid fundamentals taught in university curriculum. As with anything, I advise people to check the facts themselves, and look at a trainer/coach's academic and experience credentials before taking any advice Ok, next topic! |
| 2007-10-09 3:29 PM in reply to: #999239 |
Master 1420 Running trails in S. Ontario | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? amiine - 2007-10-09 4:21 PM pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 2:55 PM You were taught at school that strenght training definitive improves performance for endurance sports or help to avoid injuries? WOW!Daremo - 2007-10-09 3:42 PM Wasn't getting worked up on my end ...... just getting tired of: I couldn't agree with you more. I just get concerned when people are given advice that may not be based on fact or currently valid fundamentals taught in university curriculum. As with anything, I advise people to check the facts themselves, and look at a trainer/coach's academic and experience credentials before taking any advice Ok, next topic!Come again?? I didn't understand what you are implying. Can you please rephrase the question. |
| 2007-10-09 4:01 PM in reply to: #998213 |
Expert 864 Lake in the Hills | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? There is almost no definitive answer for anything in athletics and training. If there was the products they sell in infomercials wouldn't sell. People would already have thier magic weightloss pill. I always took an individual for who they were and goals they had and trained them for that. Using whatever means worked for them.
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| 2007-10-09 4:22 PM in reply to: #998940 |
| Member 16 | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? JohnnyKay - 2007-10-09 11:12 AM What does their "muscle tone" have to do with going fast (which they obviously do)? Probably not much. But there are other reasons that amateur triathletes might want to weight train. Personally, while my long-term goal is to be competitive in my age group, as a former power athlete I've grown to like the real-world effects of doing heavy squats, deadlifts, etc. Being strong is just plain useful MikeTheBear - 2007-10-09 1:43 PM What Pinktrigal says is correct. In general, gaining muscle requires hard work and extra calories. This is especially true if you have an ectomorph body type which is typical of most endurance athletes. Nevertheless, you seem very concerned about gaining weight, and if you are that concerned about gaining weight and your current training plan is meeting you goals, then you may want to skip weight training altogether. I think people think that they "bulk up rapidly" because untrained individuals often do at first. Newbie gains and all. What they don't realize is that they will plateau very quickly (1-2 months). After that, further adaptation will be neurologic without a significant caloric surplus. Also... I don't get why people still buy into the whole "toning" myth. "Tone" as most people think of it is simply reduced body fat and improved muscular development. Edited by C-Mo 2007-10-09 4:23 PM |
| 2007-10-09 4:39 PM in reply to: #998213 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? I love how this is such a hot button issue. There are plenty of smart people here with smart answers but for some reason I felt the need to answer the OP's question based on my own experience rather than what I've read. The answer for me was NO but I need to clarify. When I started training I had a lot of extra body fat and I weighed ten pounds more than I do now. Also, I wasn't working out in a traditional gym but instead I was rock climbing. Here were my results. With ZERO cardio and all of my time devoted to rock climbing I dropped almost 20 pounds in a few months. During that time I noticed my muscles starting to become more defined and my body fat melted away. At my lightest point I was about 145 pounds and close to 6 foot. Fast forward a couple of years as I continued to train for strength via rock climbing and I continued to do ZERO cardio training of any kind. My body fat was roughly the same BUT my weight went up to around 152. That was all muscle and my body was visibly more toned and lean. Now fast forward to the present. I spent the past 6 to 7 months training for my first triathlon and started doing a lot of cardio. In the beginning of my training I continued to climb but basically stopped climbing for the past few months. I've started back up but now I weigh 156. I don't have any noticable amount of body fat added however my legs are far more defined than they have ever been in my entire life. So I've done years of strength training now and I still haven't reached my starting weight but there is clearly weight being put on since I had that initial shrink down. So I think the correct answer is that it will add body weight for a low body fat individual but you will drop in weight if you have a high body fat percentage. Where that line is I have no idea. |
| 2007-10-09 6:30 PM in reply to: #999275 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 3:29 PM Did you learn at school that strength training in the form of weight lifting will unquestionably help an endurance athlete to improve performance?amiine - 2007-10-09 4:21 PM Come again?? I didn't understand what you are implying. Can you please rephrase the question.pinktrigal - 2007-10-09 2:55 PM You were taught at school that strenght training definitive improves performance for endurance sports or help to avoid injuries? WOW!Daremo - 2007-10-09 3:42 PM Wasn't getting worked up on my end ...... just getting tired of: I couldn't agree with you more. I just get concerned when people are given advice that may not be based on fact or currently valid fundamentals taught in university curriculum. As with anything, I advise people to check the facts themselves, and look at a trainer/coach's academic and experience credentials before taking any advice Ok, next topic!
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| 2007-10-09 6:41 PM in reply to: #998213 |
Pro 4507 Simpsonville, SC | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? May this thread rest in peace  |
| 2007-10-09 11:06 PM in reply to: #999439 |
| Elite 2608 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? stuartjeff - 2007-10-09 4:39 PM When I started training I had a lot of extra body fat and I weighed ten pounds more than I do now. Also, I wasn't working out in a traditional gym but instead I was rock climbing. Here were my results. With ZERO cardio and all of my time devoted to rock climbing I dropped almost 20 pounds in a few months. Stuart, this is really cool information. As bad as these weight training threads get, I still find them worthwhile to read because amid all the crap you can find nuggets of info like this. Makes me want to hit the climbing wall at my rec center. Edited by MikeTheBear 2007-10-09 11:07 PM |
| 2007-10-09 11:14 PM in reply to: #999439 |
Expert 1027 Zürich, Switzerland | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? stuartjeff - 2007-10-08 11:39 PM I love how this is such a hot button issue. There are plenty of smart people here with smart answers but for some reason I felt the need to answer the OP's question based on my own experience rather than what I've read. The answer for me was NO but I need to clarify. When I started training I had a lot of extra body fat and I weighed ten pounds more than I do now. Also, I wasn't working out in a traditional gym but instead I was rock climbing. Here were my results. With ZERO cardio and all of my time devoted to rock climbing I dropped almost 20 pounds in a few months. During that time I noticed my muscles starting to become more defined and my body fat melted away. At my lightest point I was about 145 pounds and close to 6 foot. Fast forward a couple of years as I continued to train for strength via rock climbing and I continued to do ZERO cardio training of any kind. My body fat was roughly the same BUT my weight went up to around 152. That was all muscle and my body was visibly more toned and lean. Now fast forward to the present. I spent the past 6 to 7 months training for my first triathlon and started doing a lot of cardio. In the beginning of my training I continued to climb but basically stopped climbing for the past few months. I've started back up but now I weigh 156. I don't have any noticable amount of body fat added however my legs are far more defined than they have ever been in my entire life. So I've done years of strength training now and I still haven't reached my starting weight but there is clearly weight being put on since I had that initial shrink down. So I think the correct answer is that it will add body weight for a low body fat individual but you will drop in weight if you have a high body fat percentage. Where that line is I have no idea. Ok this is interesting. It would be helpful to underrstand the % fat level at each stage of this summary since visual inspection can be misleading. About me, I am not lean as I would like to be: I have 12.5% fat (Tanita measurement) and of course I need to go down but my life habits keep me on that level so it would be very stressing going further down. The important is to not going up. thanks Filippo |
| 2007-10-10 6:00 AM in reply to: #999371 |
Veteran 437 | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? AddysDaddy - 2007-10-09 5:01 PM There is almost no definitive answer for anything in athletics and training. That is the truth. You can find stuff that says stretching does nothing to help prevent injuries. You can find stuff that says the opposite. Forget studies, if you just post questions you will get answers that each person is 100% sure are fact . . . and other other post says something else. The one thing that I have always tried to do for myself (and recommend to others if they ask) is to find out what works for you. If you find a workout plan or book or coach that seems to make sense to you, try it - really try it. Then make an honest assessment as to the results. If it works, stick with it. If not, do not. Add strength training and see if it helps you. If not, then drop it. Or take strength training away and add more SBR training and see if it does what you want. Always figure out your goals and base everything around that. My goal is to do well in running races and tri's, but my goal has never been to be as fast as I possibly could. Let me explain more. When I was just a runner I could have been faster with more miles, less bodyweight and much less (if any) strength training. I want to be more muscular than most good distance runners. I do a lot of other things, like snow ski, wakeboard/wakeskate, golf, play basketball, play with my kids, etc. |
| 2007-10-10 9:48 AM in reply to: #1000191 |
Expert 1027 Zürich, Switzerland | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? indygreg - 2007-10-09 1:00 PM AddysDaddy - 2007-10-09 5:01 PM There is almost no definitive answer for anything in athletics and training. That is the truth. You can find stuff that says stretching does nothing to help prevent injuries. You can find stuff that says the opposite. Forget studies, if you just post questions you will get answers that each person is 100% sure are fact . . . and other other post says something else. The one thing that I have always tried to do for myself (and recommend to others if they ask) is to find out what works for you. If you find a workout plan or book or coach that seems to make sense to you, try it - really try it. Then make an honest assessment as to the results. If it works, stick with it. If not, do not. Add strength training and see if it helps you. If not, then drop it. Or take strength training away and add more SBR training and see if it does what you want. Always figure out your goals and base everything around that. My goal is to do well in running races and tri's, but my goal has never been to be as fast as I possibly could. Let me explain more. When I was just a runner I could have been faster with more miles, less bodyweight and much less (if any) strength training. I want to be more muscular than most good distance runners. I do a lot of other things, like snow ski, wakeboard/wakeskate, golf, play basketball, play with my kids, etc. Well I fully agree with your point. I was just trying to see (with the main post) if there was a main line about strength line but of course the answer is that there is NO universal answer for this. I mean, if the post would have been...let's say..."does kg slow your pace down on running?". Well I would have got a clear statement from everybody. Here, I have seen 90 posts and no clear answer. I have to go and try by myself as you suggested. About your running past and your kg more...sometimes it is hard to go leaner and leaner for distance running performance. It is much easier to say...I go for other things in life. That is correct but it is not the statement of a "distance runner". Distance runner for me is somebody who wants always improve his performances on long distances (let's say from Half marathon and above). It is not somebody who wants only to partecipate and finish 200 marathons per year just for acquiring visibility with his parents or friends. Having 2h50' best time in marathon and knowing that you need to drop 2-3 kg to get easily to 2h45' is something very though and harder than saying...let's go to Sahara marathon just for finishing it, even in 5 hours. That is a different sport. I hope that you do not get this comment in a bad way like others did by themselves. Now I went off topic as OP :-))) FN |
| 2007-10-10 9:57 AM in reply to: #998213 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? in that case if your main goal is running performance then skip the weights for sure and just use that time to run more. Any weight you save = free speed. have you seen the elite marathoners built? I doubt they can squat 100 pounds. I know I can't and still I'll be training to run a 2:30 hrs mary in February... |
| 2007-10-10 10:02 AM in reply to: #1000562 |
Runner | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? amiine - 2007-10-10 10:57 AM in that case if your main goal is running performance then skip the weights for sure and just use that time to run more. Any weight you save = free speed. have you seen the elite marathoners built? I doubt they can squat 100 pounds. I know I can't and still I'll be training to run a 2:30 hrs mary in February...To add to this some.... The strength training you'll be most interested in would be hills, form drills, and some forms of speed work. |
| 2007-10-10 10:05 AM in reply to: #1000075 |
| Veteran 198 | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? Plissken74 - 2007-10-10 12:14 AM Ok this is interesting. It would be helpful to underrstand the % fat level at each stage of this summary since visual inspection can be misleading. Sadly I don't have any truly accurate measurements. We used to have a Tanita scale in my office that I would jump on in the mornings but I've heard the numbers are generally way off. I never measured myself before I started climbing but my veins were not visible, my abs were not visible, and I could grab handfulls around my waist. During the slimming down process I had readings as high as 14% but at my thinnest I didn't register on the scale. The one we had didn't have an athletic mode and wouldn't accurately measure less than 10%. I actually intentionally put on a little extra weight since I hit my lowest point because I believe I had too little body fat. I was constantly cold and looked a bit on the sickly side. I had a pronounced 8 pack when I was at my thinnest. Now I would ballpark myself around 8-10% - I have no scientific basis for this but I still don't register on the Tanita. However, I can pinch my belly but still have a faint six pack unflexed with visible veins on my arms pretty much all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if I put on a little more weight as I dive back into climbing training hardcore. My upper body will have to compensate for the increased leg mass so I'm expecting to get a bit bigger. I'm also continuing my cycling training so I wouldn't be shocked if I hit 160 by next race season. That's still five pounds or so lighter than I was when I started. |
| 2007-10-10 10:46 AM in reply to: #1000562 |
Expert 1027 Zürich, Switzerland | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? amiine - 2007-10-09 4:57 PM in that case if your main goal is running performance then skip the weights for sure and just use that time to run more. Any weight you save = free speed. have you seen the elite marathoners built? I doubt they can squat 100 pounds. I know I can't and still I'll be training to run a 2:30 hrs mary in February...Well, I red the preparation plan of Gebre record and he started with weight trainings (squat, lounge, etc.). Baldini did the same when he won the Olympic games...so... I did weight training ONLY for my legs and I got my best time in marathon but I can't say that it was for the strength training. I can say that I was 2kg over my target weight and I was not expecting 2h54'... But I never did upper body weight training...which is scaring me and that is why I posted this subject. |
| 2007-10-10 1:36 PM in reply to: #1000670 |
| Elite 2608 Denver, Colorado | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? Plissken74 - 2007-10-10 10:46 AM amiine - 2007-10-09 4:57 PM in that case if your main goal is running performance then skip the weights for sure and just use that time to run more. Any weight you save = free speed. have you seen the elite marathoners built? I doubt they can squat 100 pounds. I know I can't Well, I red the preparation plan of Gebre record and he started with weight trainings (squat, lounge, etc.). Baldini did the same when he won the Olympic games...so... I did weight training ONLY for my legs and I got my best time in marathon but I can't say that it was for the strength training. I can say that I was 2kg over my target weight and I was not expecting 2h54'... But I never did upper body weight training...which is scaring me and that is why I posted this subject. and still I'll be training to run a 2:30 hrs mary in February...I think you have your answer right here. You found that weight training for your lower body helped your running. You should continue with that. As for your upper body, if you were going to gain weight from weight training it would have been with your lower body workouts because the muscles of the lower body are larger than the upper body. I would recommend just doing some basic exercises for the upper body, such as pull ups and presses, or skip the upper body altogether if you are very concerned about gaining weight. |
| 2007-10-10 1:50 PM in reply to: #1001089 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? MikeTheBear - 2007-10-10 1:36 PM I think you have your answer right here. You found that weight training for your lower body helped your running. You should continue with that. No he didn't find that. Maybe you missed something that he clearly recognizes: "but I can't say that it was for the strength training"
There is no way for anybody to be SURE that the inclusion of one specific training element was responsible for the difference in their race result. There is no control group. All he can say is that he included weights in his training and had what he felt was a good race. It's data, but it does not allow one to draw a conclusion. I know some people will think this is splitting hairs, but I respectfully disagree. It's completely subjective. |
| 2007-10-10 1:57 PM in reply to: #1000670 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Strength training: does it add body weight??? Plissken74 - 2007-10-10 10:46 AM well Emil Zatopek trained using army boots, maybe you should try that amiine - 2007-10-09 4:57 PM in that case if your main goal is running performance then skip the weights for sure and just use that time to run more. Any weight you save = free speed. have you seen the elite marathoners built? I doubt they can squat 100 pounds. I know I can't Well, I red the preparation plan of Gebre record and he started with weight trainings (squat, lounge, etc.). Baldini did the same when he won the Olympic games...so... I did weight training ONLY for my legs and I got my best time in marathon but I can't say that it was for the strength training. I can say that I was 2kg over my target weight and I was not expecting 2h54'... But I never did upper body weight training...which is scaring me and that is why I posted this subject. and still I'll be training to run a 2:30 hrs mary in February... when you have the running speed and aerobic base of Gebre (or as Allen as JK mentioned many posts ago) then yes ST might have a place and might make a difference as I pointed out in my OP, it could improve economy. At sub 3hrs it is up to do; anyway good luck... |
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