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2009-04-24 2:10 AM
in reply to: #2107191

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Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
grdavison - 2009-04-24 12:00 AM
wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-23 7:02 PM

Like Jen said, if you're desperate, then do what you gotta do. But I wouldn't work for a company that basically aids and abets plagarism, which is against the rules of EVERY academic institution in this country. It'd be one thing if you were taking students' papers and editing them, etc, but to flat out write them; no way, I wouldn't do it.



she's not doing anything illegal... its not like they are asking her to sell drugs on the corner..  its easy to say that you wouldn't do it when you aren't in the situation of being unemployed and have the job opportunity in front of you..

i say take the job and enjoy the money...


It's cool ... I know wurkit loves me ... and I put the question out there because I really wanted the different perspectives.

Special thanks for the NPR and article links ... great to have the insider's views on the industry.


2009-04-24 7:43 AM
in reply to: #2106673

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
I can certainly appreciate the moral dilemma here, but I think I agree with the take the job side.  The best point being that YOUR work is legit and upstanding; what others DO with it is their problem. 

I used to not often give money to panhandlers/homeless people because I figured they were either (a) not as bad off as you might think, or (b) not using the money for anything good, so I didn't want to be an enabler to it.  But my ex husband gave me a different perspective on it.  He said, "all I can assume is the person is homeless, so I am doing the right thing by helping them out.  If they are lying about their situation or using the money unwisely, that is on THEIR conscience, not mine."  I think that applies here; you would be a hard-working, functional member of society, doing your best to stay out of public assistance.  Your work is moral; what other do with it is on THEIR conscience. 

I hope you find something better than these jobs though, then problem solved!
2009-04-24 7:46 AM
in reply to: #2107150

Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

D001 - 2009-04-24 12:28 AM
wurkit_gurl - 2009-04-23 10:02 PM ... It'd be one thing if you were taking students' papers and editing them, etc,....
Hm, this ^^^ got me thinking.... Is there a college (2 yr or 4 yr) nearby? You have a bachelor's degree in biochem, right? (Or something like that, if I recall correctly?) Maybe you could teach labs. Is there a community college nearby that's looking for part-time adjuncts? Or what about tutoring high school or college students? (You could have the kids come to your home, or set up the meeting at nearby, as in biking/walking distance.) OK. That's it. I'm out of ideas for now.

I had a friend who did test scoring and such out of her home - through some online company. You could always tutor kids/young folks for the PSATs/SATs/GREs (can be done out of your home, I think, depending on the company you go through). I think there may be some options out there. Or even under-the-table/Craigslist offer to proof/edit college kids' papers with the caveat that the paper MUST be at least 75% complete, or something like that, so that they CANNOT expect you to write it for them.

I know that writing papers for college kids isn't illegal and that yes, the kids are at fault, not the company who provides them. But it's the principle of the thing - helping students to break the Honor Code of their school (which could get them expelled) would really bother me. But I also said that desperate times call for (legal) desperate measures. So if this is the only option, then go with it for now.



Edited by wurkit_gurl 2009-04-24 7:46 AM
2009-04-24 8:25 AM
in reply to: #2106817

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2009-04-24 8:35 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Pro
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Norwalk, Connecticut
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
Survival first....Pride second

lotsa people do things they are not proud of when it comes to survival....hell I even worked at Wal-Mart

You do what you have to do, and don't worry about what other people think

your dog loves you regardless and unconditionally

2009-04-24 9:10 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Master
2006
2000
Portland, ME
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
When in doubt I always fall back on Buddhism eight noble paths.

One of these paths is "Right Livelihood". It means earning ones living in a way that is not harmful to others.


Edited by Jackemy 2009-04-24 9:13 AM


2009-04-24 9:12 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Elite
4148
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Utah
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
As several have already mentioned...

There are many scenario's that could be worse.  Some which could happen if you don't take the job.

As the writer of the linked article mentioned, it was fast money.  Not too many other legal ways I know of making fast money.

Take the job... you can always ask for forgiveness if you should feel guilty.

Good luck with your decision.
2009-04-24 9:31 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

TriAya -

This is ideal work for me that I can pop out whizz-bang and will keep the roof over my head and food in my stomach. But ... I just have this little nagging voice that says, "It's not right."

...

Do I listen to my heart, or to my stomach? I would never judge someone who was truly in need if they, for example, stole a loaf of bread, so how is this really different?

 

It's not any different.  In fact, it may be less grave than stealing bread when you're hungry.

You have a legitimate responsibility to take care of your basic needs.  If you already had your needs met, and took this job to make extra money for luxuries, that would be different.

Think through the moral gravity of the act in question.  It's fraudulent for a student to submit a paper that they did not write.  You are not doing anything fraudulent in and of itself, but you are contributing to the fraud being able to occur.  In moral equations, there are two forms of cooperation with evil to keep in mind, one is formal cooperation and the other is material cooperation.  Let's say the government is doing an act, call it X, that is objectively morally grave and evil.  Those doing the act are formally cooperating with evil, however someone paying their taxes that makes doing the act possible are only materially cooperating with evil.  Given one's responsibility to pay taxes and follow the law, in most cases this leaves them without culpability regarding the evil act even though they are materially cooperating with it.

So is writing for this company formal or material cooperation with evil?  I don't know.  Search your conscience on that one.  However, even if it is formal cooperation, that needs to get weighed against your legitimate need for food and shelter.  And in judging this, you need to consider the weight of the morally grave act being committed, in this case submitting a fraudulent paper to a teacher.

So I don't know the answer to your question, but these are things I would think about in making a decision for myself.



Edited by dontracy 2009-04-24 9:43 AM
2009-04-24 10:00 AM
in reply to: #2107477

Alpharetta, Georgia
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
Spokes - 2009-04-24 8:25 AM
And lets take it from another angle on Cliffs note comment... a well-written paper might be used as a way to get a student off of writer's block, or help them learn how to organize an original paper so they get a better grade, or help them learn enough about the topic to figure out how to put a good paper together.

But the point is, if people are going to cheat, they'll find a way anyway.


I read through this whole thread and definitely see both sides. But Spokes' post was the direction I was leaning in my head.

Coming from a writer/communications professional.
2009-04-24 10:15 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Expert
1158
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Chicagoland
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

Wow I struggle with this one but in the end I really don't think there is anything wrong with what you would be doing.   You would be writing a paper to the best of your ability, if some lazy kid or parent wants to use to their advantage, that's their problem, not yours.  We all can't be Mother Theresa, then again I believe she struggled with her faith and purpose many times.   This isn't life and death, but a basic need being met!   Any body here work for the liquor industry?   Do you worry that there are millions of alcoholics abusing your product?    When my dad was off getting drunk, I didn't blame Budweiser (it was more like Old Milwaukee, but you get my point!)   Take the job, Yanti!   Feed your dogs, get some new pedals, buy yourself something nice, because all you would be doing, in my opinion, is working!  My 2 cents!

2009-04-24 10:40 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Veteran
331
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Roxborough Park
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
I think if I were you I'd wind up taking the job at least for the short term.  There is definitely a little danger zone if you'll wind up feeling so guilty that it will sort of hamper you in your general every day life, but I think at this point with the job market as it is you've got to do what you've got to do to stay afloat.

I would definitely still keep looking for other stuff, in the interest of helping you brainstorm without knowing really anything about you professionally, heres what comes to my mind (I'm in sales):

With a biochem degree (I read that, right?) I'd look at medical or pharmaceutical sales- those gigs are tough and tough to get but boy do they pay!

What about ad sales (yep, that's what I do) for a publication that writes for doctors?  You would be able to understand the things that would need to go in there so for me that would make sense (Ad sales money can be quick money and it can be big money- again though, it can be a tough gig).

What about writing for magazines that need somebody with the science background you have?  I don't have any in mind, but there may be some that are industry publications as well as some of the consumer publications you might find in the science section of a book store. (Go to the bookstore, open the science magazines, write down the name of the editor and voila- call him/her about freelancing). 

Good luck!  And keep your chin up.


2009-04-24 10:59 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Master
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Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
TriAya - 2009-04-23 7:50 PM

But ... I just have this little nagging voice that says, "It's not right."



Yanti...I am almost twice your age and while my "gut" has been larger...and it has been smaller...it has usually steered me in the right direction in my "Life's Choices".  Not all of these were in foresight...a TON were in hindsight but rarely were they wrong FOR ME.

You are too talented and smart to go long without something and even though with you are proposing is not illegal it certainly doesn't sit well with you on a personal level.....otherwise you wouldn't ask for advise in CoJ 

Just a thought

Steve

2009-04-25 4:05 PM
in reply to: #2106673

TinkerBeth
23096
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Liverpool, New York
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
Yanti,

As many have mentioned,  only you can make the choice.  I agree with Steve's point of view about trusting your gut.  I think if you were comfortable with it, you would have already taken it.

That being said, there is also a very practical issue of needing an income.  You mentioned that they would snap you up quickly, so if there's anyway you can buy a little time......then hold off.

As many others have said, you can always do it for a short time.  A means to an end.  At the end of the day you need to take care of you.

A door has closed with your recent situation, but another is opening, the opportunity just hasn't become obvious yet.

In my opinion there really isn't a wrong decision here.

You will make the best decision for Yanti. 

Love Ya!!

{{MELON PRESS!!}}


2009-04-25 4:13 PM
in reply to: #2106673

Master
1402
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Highlands Ranch
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

Keep your roof, heat, and food in place via the 'convenient' work...it'll be original writing for you.

As soon as you're able to move one, do that...and good luck!

2009-04-25 8:03 PM
in reply to: #2106673

Elite
2423
2000100100100100
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

For sure your stomach. The dilema is no different than taking a job at a tobacco company or firearm company. You know how the products should be used, however you also know they are used wrong (underage smoking, murder (opposed to defense)).

2009-04-25 8:14 PM
in reply to: #2106673

Elite
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Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

However like others said if you just think it feels bad skip it, there are always other opportunities out there.



2009-04-25 9:01 PM
in reply to: #2107616

Elite
3067
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Cheesehead, WI
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
this is a toughie. I've always felt that as an ex smoker and drinker that I could not work for an alcohol or tobacco company because of principle.  Those things are not only 'dangerous' to me but to others (esp. tobacco). I'd feel sort of like a dealer pushing that may ultimately threaten me on many levels.

Ultimately this comes down to how you'd feel - can you let it go? Are we talking kids majoring in engineering needing a paper written about Theatre in the Round? Or papers written about subjects that are life and death or make or break someone's college/career knowledge?

If you didn't do this, those kids would likely get a paper from someone else who wouldn't write so eloquently. (you write beautifully!(However, for some, depending on their individual styles, if anyone else wrote it, they may never be able to plagerize inconspicuously) Also are you given the material which is then put into meaningful sentences or do you have to really 'work' at pulling the research together for them? Part of me says I could do this...I need money myself. Chances are I'd never meet any of the kids thus keeping it impersonal and distant. You have to weigh the pros and cons (write them out). And keep asking for input...talk about it...the answer will come and it WILL BE THE RIGHT ONE FOR YOU!!!!

2009-04-25 9:08 PM
in reply to: #2106673

COURT JESTER
12230
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ROCKFORD, IL
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

From the thread title I thought you were considering writing some tacky/steamy forum letter stuff.....wait, is BT considering putting you on payroll and did they create a new forum for that? 

2009-04-26 12:45 AM
in reply to: #2110515

Melon Presser
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Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
tupuppy - 2009-04-25 7:08 PM

From the thread title I thought you were considering writing some tacky/steamy forum letter stuff.....wait, is BT considering putting you on payroll and did they create a new forum for that? 



Well, there's always this opportunity:

Get paid to review adult websites (Hollywood)


Reply to: [email protected] [Errors when replying to ads?]
Date: 2009-04-21, 6:20PM PDT


We're seeking to hire good writers (18+) to write short, quality reviews for adult sites covering various niches. This is fun, easy part-time work and we will pay you per review - its a fantastic way to make some extra cash! You need to be 18+, a good writer and capable of meeting deadlines. We want to make a decision ASAP so get back to us soon - this is a great opportunity to get paid well for looking at adult websites!
2009-04-26 12:56 AM
in reply to: #2106673

On your right
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
I say take both jobs! 

You know that the paper writing gig isn't going to be your career, and it's not as bad as needing to work at Wal-Mart. 

And write adult website reviews too.  Heck, you might even be able to use one for the other job.  Maybe an adult site has a Romeo & Juliet style section to be reviewed, so you could take part of a term paper and use it in the review.  Or better yet, use the adult review as a term paper!
2009-04-26 12:22 PM
in reply to: #2106806

Elite
3972
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Reno
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

Reno8 - 2009-04-23 7:54 PM
TriAya - 2009-04-23 7:50 PM

As everyone knows 'cause I keep saying it--I lost my main job and am totally broke, so am looking hard for other work.

There are two academic writing companies nearby that I know will snap me up in a heartbeat because of my exemplary qualifications. They're close (to pick up assignments, important 'cause I don't have a car, and I can do most of the work from home), they pay well, and for what they do, they're reputable.

My problem is the work itself. Essentially, I would be writing papers for students who can afford to buy them.

What these companies do is provide "model" term papers to students for purposes of "research." Yes, the students sign a (useless) contract saying they will not misappropriate the papers, but it's pretty obvious what's going on.

This is ideal work for me that I can pop out whizz-bang and will keep the roof over my head and food in my stomach. But ... I just have this little nagging voice that says, "It's not right."

Do I listen to my heart, or to my stomach? I would never judge someone who was truly in need if they, for example, stole a loaf of bread, so how is this really different?



I really think you have answered your own question....but like you...I would never judge someone who was truly in need.  Only you can decide if you fall into that category right this moment.

Steve

This is the answer.  

I hope you find work that makes you proud soon.  Good luck.



2009-04-27 2:27 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Master
1903
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Portland, Oregon
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job

I would take the job. It is easy for you to do, pays apparently decent enough money, and you can very easily look for other options and go to interviews while doing it. It's not a career, it just temporarily pays for those crazy extras like dog food, somewhere to sleep and poptarts skim milk and veggies. At least you won't be freaking out about the $$ so much.

Besides, if some idiot student is so incredibly stoopid as to wholesale plagiarize things you've written, then they'll likely get the boot out of college and a more deserving person can take their place. Think of it as a public service. Also, you're also keeping Turnitin in business. They have employees too you know.

My husband once took a job that was sucky, and went for three days, then got an interesting and better offer. There'll be other things, maybe sooner than you think.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

2009-04-27 4:09 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Master
2665
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The Whites, New Hampshire
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
^^^ Listen to ell-in-or.
2009-04-27 8:39 AM
in reply to: #2106673

Pro
5011
5000
Twin Cities
Subject: RE: WWCOJD--Shady Writing Job
Would I ever buy a term paper? NO. Do I care of someone else does? Not really. The old "only hurting themselves" adage applies here. It's a job. It pays your bills. If someone else abuses the system...well, it's a free country.

As a writer, I feel your pain, and I know exactly how tough the market is. I'm fortunate enough to have a fairly secure job (low paying...but secure. Can't have it all, I guess :p), but if I needed more money, or if I lost this job, I would have no problem taking the position. Truth is...I'd probably enjoy it. It'd be a chance to learn about new topics and be "back in school" with none of the pressure.
2009-04-27 1:41 PM
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