Cosmetic Surgery gone bad, I mean reeeaaalll Bad (Page 2)

I think my cats are way cuter. 

And don't even go near the tigers.  They would be freaked out to see them. 

I think the question for a practitioner is not whether her choices appear "healthy" according to that practitioner's judgment but, rather, whether she has the mental capacity to consent to the procedure.

I am glad you enjoyed your tatoos and piercings.   I personally said I think people who have body modifications done have some issues.   And I do.  That is me.   Tattoos are silly in my opinion as well.  again, my opinion.   What I was trying to address is the actions of this woman.  Can you call what SHE did even remotely healthy?  If you were a doctor, would you be willing to make someone look like that?  

as my grampa used to say...

De gustibus non est desputandum. 

I think that is pretty minimal definition.   If I wanted both my arms cut off at the shoulder, should a doctor help me with that?   I think sometimes the request itself leaves little question about the mental health of the individual.

Yes, it is minimal but (and I may be wrong on this) I believe that is what the law requires. And, if memory serves, there was actually a case where a man wanted his limbs hacked off. Don't remember how that played out... Anyway, there is a difference between "mental health" and having issues. Obviously, the woman had issues but I haven't read anything that suggested she lacked a sound mind.

Women get boob jobs all the time. You could argue that some of these women suffer from poor body image. Do you deny them the procedure because you think they don't have a healthy outlook? Do they have mental health issues?

I don't think this argument is going to go anywhere.  But yes, in my view, pretty much any non-reconstructive plastic surgery is morally suspect.   Extreme examples even more so.  

Well, we already lack a significant amount of control over our own bodies and health currently.  A doctor is more than welcome to decline to perform any procedure he or she doesn't want to (whether he or she keeps their job is another issue).  Catholic hospitals don't perform abortions.

If someone is capable of making their own decisions, they can choose to look as stupid as they want to as long as they can find a doc to do it.  I see no problem with that (Body adornment up to tattoos and piercings are a completely different subject since no med. professioanl is involved).

As a hijack, just as I would like to think that, stricken with a fatal and painful disease, I should be given the power to make my own choices about the end of my life (god forbid).   Unfortunately, I don't

Ooh, I think our exchange just went somewhere.

We were talking about the difference between being of sound mind vs mental health/disorder vs having healthy self-esteem ... and you segued into moral issues.

Do we want practitioners to overrule their patients' requests because it violates the practitioners sense of morality? Well, that question has already been settled. It happens all the time - pharmacists refuse birth control dispensation, for example. 

But the question we've been considering is whether a practitioner should be held liable for the procedures they perform on patients who are of sound mind. 

It sounds like you are saying the practitioner should either a) be held liable or b) deny a procedure if the procedure violates a moral litmus test. In the case of liability, who should we allow to define this moral litmus test? Whose morals?

I think our exchange points to exactly why this would be problematic. Where you see morally suspect procedures, I see civil liberties at work. Whose morals should prevail?

Unless a person has been deemed mentally unfit to make decisions for themselves, I think the government should not impose its someone's moral views on the matter.

You're all over the place.  What do morals have to do with your original statement?

Not really sure you have any idea what mental illness is either.

My original statement had to do with the ethical nature of performing disfiguring surgeries.   Ethical and moral are pretty much synonyms.   So it seems to tie in nicely.   As I said, this argument really isn't going anywhere.   I still think much of the plastic surgery field has questionable ethics, and you have no problem with it.  Settled. 

Feel free to define mental illness for me.  

I agree with you.  I take back my statement about wanting to revoke the licenses of the doctors who performed the surgery.  I still question the ethics of the doctors.  Not sure you can say they are practicing "medicine" at that point.  

Ethics and morals are NOT the same thing.  You're confusing multiple issues.  Your statements are based on false premises.

You are right that this is going nowhere though.

Just cause you are calling me dumb,  pull out a dictionary and look up the definition of ethics or ethical.  

from dictionary.com: 

I'm not calling you dumb.  I'm saying that you're incorrect in your statement.

If you believe medical ethics have anything to do with personal morality, I can't really help you.  There are plenty of books and other resources on ethics that are available that have not a word in them about personal morality.  You should take a look.

I just love that the article says she was out on a date!  Oh, but the power of Money!!