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2004-12-10 9:07 AM

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Subject: Arthritis in the Knee
Hello Everyone,

I had a post some time ago about some knee pain I was having only when I ran. Last Sat. At first I thought it was ITBS. I had an MRI and today was told by my regular family doctor that the MRI showed some slight arthritis in the knee. Now, I am not a doctor but my experience with arthritis has been that people who have it do not need to exercise to have pain and there is generally swelling with it. No swelling for me or pain other than running. The last episode happened after a 5K on Thanksgiving and I had NO pain at all until the run was over and I was trotting back to pick up a friend as he came in. Pain was a little sharper when it hit which prompted the visit to the doctor and the MRI.

I think it is worth a second opinion and wondered if anyone else has symptoms of arthritis in the knee?

Fred


2004-12-10 9:22 AM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
Did you see your primary care office? If so, I'd suggest a visit to an ortho. (not to knock the primary care folks, since I am one - nurse practitioner that is) I had knee problems about 2 years ago - had it injected for ITBS, etc, etc, etc. MRI completely normal. Turns out I had a lateral meniscal tear and had to have surgery. And how old are you? Arthritis would be an issue if older or if you've had an injury to the joint previously (typically). And maybe you do have arthritis, but maybe there's another problem not seen on the MRI? Good luck with that one!
2004-12-10 9:33 AM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
This is just related to this arthritis thread, but I thought I would throw it out there.

I went to the doctor after having to quite my last marathon at mile 5, because of extreme leg pain above the knee and hamstring. I thought it was ITBS, even though it wasn't exactly in the right place for that. After about 3 weeks I decided to go to the DR. and had a MRI done. THey found a stress fracture and torn miniscus. THe Dr. said he is debating about triming the torn miniscus.

Usually when someone has a miniscus problem, there is swelling, knee locking, and pain. I have none. I think the miniscus injury happened 17 years ago playing soccer in high school. I can remember an incident involving extreme knee pain during a game.

Anyway, to make a long story a little shorter, the Dr. said if left that a torn miniscus can irritate the knee joint causing Arthritis. I have read that removing the minisucs tear eliminates that shock absorbing affect and can cause arthritis. Am I screwed? What to do?

No matter what I decide I am going to wait until after this Tri season to make a decision.

2004-12-10 9:42 AM
in reply to: #91127

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee

Blacktoe - 2004-12-10 7:33 AM if left that a torn miniscus can irritate the knee joint causing Arthritis. I have read that removing the minisucs tear eliminates that shock absorbing affect and can cause arthritis. Am I screwed? What to do? .

As far as "trimming" the meniscus and arthritis, that depends on how much is cut.  If you can't run b/c of the meniscus, then that might answer your question.  Of course you have the complicating factor of the stress fracture. 

My own experience - I could run no more than 10 minutes without pain and felt I had to do something.  I was told I'd be running in 4 weeks ( I was marathon training), but NO....the meniscus had to be sutured and screwed into the tibia (dissolvable screws).  so I had crutches for a month and no running for 6 months.  All that after no findings on the MRI.  Sometimes it happens.

Where's our orthopod buddy? chime in if you have thoughts!

2004-12-10 9:57 AM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
The stress fracture is healed and I am back to training, running 3 times a week, 5 miles at a time. I really have no symptoms. I was told that the tear is pretty good size. Stitching it back together is not really an option because of my age (35) and if its an old injury it probably wont take.

What would you do in this situation? I would prefer not doing anything if it is not bothering me right now. If it ever became a problem then have the surgery. I am suppose to go back to the sports doctor in a few weeks just for a check on things.
2004-12-10 10:23 AM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
Hey COGirl,

I am 39, 175 lb, 6ft tall, green eyes, etc. Seriously, I think it may be some kind of an old injury (Blacktoe) going back to LOTS of football. I have taken some shots on that knee that hurt like crazy but was not enough to keep me from playing. I never had swelling and the only fluid I can remember came after a 2 hr game of basketball on a concrete court years ago. I do have sort of a strange feeling in the knee. It feels like the weak feeling you have if you sprain an ankle and the swelling and pain have gone but the weak feeling is there for a while.

Fred


2004-12-10 12:11 PM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
know the pain far to well, being diagnosed with osteoarthritis in my knee and hips and now over coming it through a healthy diet and regular exicise mixed with daily doses of gluclostromine and pain killers on the bad days. some days i cant even get up but they have become rare. the limp has not gone on cold days but can run short distances again. just dont puch it to hard, check your shoes regulary fit risers in thrm if need be all thngs tho cut the trauma on the joints helps.


2004-12-10 2:13 PM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
I'm 37 and just got diagnosed with arthritis in the knees this week. My knees sound like plastic wrap being crumpled up whenever I bent them. Doctor said that it is arthritis not a rheumatoid arthritis. He said at some point I will begin to feel some pain in the knees but he told me to make sure I don't land on them for any reason because that can significantly speed up the pain process. I'm taking Glucosamine now and don't feel any pain whatsoever. I would get a second opinion because the ortho dr. I saw two months ago about this problem said it wasn't a problem and didn't know what it was. Just make sure if you go to a second dr. to get the report from the first dr. that way your not having to pay for things twice.

Mike
2004-12-10 3:22 PM
in reply to: #91127

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Subject: Meniscus tear

My husband just had knee surgery for a lateral bucket-handle meniscus tear.

If you can have the tear repaired, then do it.  But, your tear may not be in the section of the meniscus that has blood flow so repair may not be an option.  If not, then trimming is your only option.  Otherwise, as the dr. said, the torn portion will irritate the joint and cause arthritis.  If the doc trims the meniscus, it will increase your likelihood of getting arthritis (and the more that's trimmed, the higher your likelihood), but it's not definite.  As our doc explained, the meniscus doesn't really absorb shock as much as it spreads the force of the bones over a larger area.

I would be concerned about waiting to get it trimmed, because the tear can get worse over time, especially with doing a lot of running.  Also, you need to talk to your doc about your chances of running after the meniscus trim.  Maybe if enough is left, you'll be able to continue running, but my Hub was told not to run in the future since 80% of his meniscus had to be removed.  With less of the meniscus there to spread the force of the joints, running would be a sure fire way to give him arthritis.  So, if getting it done early will save more of your meniscus, it may allow you to keep running.

The surgery itself isn't too bad.  Hub is cleared for biking now a month after his surgery.  He was walking pretty well after a week and doesn't need any physical rehab.

I wish you luck ...

2004-12-10 4:36 PM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
COgirl I have a question for you!!! I had an MRI on my knee and it showed only swelling in my knee. Anyway back to it, back in july I had pain behind my knee and one morning couldn't even bend it! I have been doing some stuff for it even a new thing called ASTM and it was feeling a little better, but ran on monday and felt as if I couldn't even run for 10 min. The doctor said that if this doesn't work then he is going check it out. My question is my pain is behind my knee and I was wondering could it be a meniscal tear even if nothing came up on the MRI ( other then the swelling ). Anyway what is your opinion!
2004-12-11 5:08 PM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
I had an MRI of my knee that was read as "Normal" by a radiologist at an imaging center. Fortunately my ortho doc was a friend of mine who decided there was reason enough to do a scope with the symptoms I was having. In surgery he found that I had a bone tumor, a large cartilage tear with a free flap that wore away 50% of my ACL and also wore a hole in the surface of my femur about the size of a quarter. After surgery another radiologist looked at the same pre-operative MRI films (not knowing what they found in surgery) and found all of the above.

Studies are only as good as the person reading them, apparently. If you're not satisfied, I'd recommend a second opinion from someone who treats a lot of patients with knee problems. It may even be worth your time to go to a sports medicine specialist. They may have a better understanding of what you put your body through in training...more so than a doc who see's mostly non-sports related knee problems. Best of luck to you.


2004-12-11 11:30 PM
in reply to: #91113

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Subject: RE: Arthritis in the Knee
Thanks everyone. I am planning on having a second opinion from an orthopedic specialist. I do not doubt there could be arthritis there but I just have too much trouble believing MY symptoms are all from it. As usual, I will keep everyone updated and thanks again for all the input.

Fred
2004-12-13 9:57 AM
in reply to: #91358

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Subject: gj50

Your symptoms do not sound like those of a meniscus tear, though that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't so.  When my hubby tore his meniscus, it felt somewhat swollen and very stiff.  It felt like it wanted to lock straight, somewhat unstable and made very loud, jarring popping noises when it was bent a certain way.  Of course, in his particular tear, the torn flap of his meniscus was caught in his knee joint (like sticking a pencil in a door hinge), thereby causing those problems.

My advice to you would be to get a 2nd opinion.

2004-12-13 10:00 AM
in reply to: #91531

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Subject: RGRBILL - question about the tumor

Where was the tumor that you had?  My mom has had knee pain and been unable to run.  She was diagnosed with having a benign tumor in her knee, but the doc tells her that it shouldn't cause pain.  Of course, the typical patient with this malady is no older than 10, not 52!

She has only catastrophic insurance ($5k deductible) so she is hesitant to go to another ortho only to be told the same thing.  Any insights you have would be appreciated.

2004-12-13 5:22 PM
in reply to: #91909

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Subject: RE: RGRBILL - question about the tumor
I'll send you a note with the info to your mailbox
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