General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Tempo based speed plan Rss Feed  
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2008-03-27 2:25 PM

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Master
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Subject: Tempo based speed plan

I am working on building speed and came up with this treadmill workout

WU 10min @5-6mph

tempo 10min@ 7mph

Cd 10 min@ 6-5 mph

Then each week I will cut the warmup and cool down time by 1 min each and add 2 or 3 min to the tempo time up to 5,30,5 then start adding weekly speed increses (.1mph) to each step. what do you think



2008-03-27 2:27 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
Don't cut the warm-up/cool-down.
2008-03-27 2:28 PM
in reply to: #1297954

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
JohnnyKay - 2008-03-27 2:27 PM

Don't cut the warm-up/cool-down.


+1
2008-03-27 2:30 PM
in reply to: #1297954

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

Are you only constrained to a 1/2 hour?  As JK said, do not cut down your w/u or c/d ..... increase the tempo time.

If you are constrained, then I'd alter your plan to doing just a steady workout for that period and that you need to do the tempo workout outside when you have more time to devote to it.

2008-03-27 2:49 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
Are you just choosing paces arbitrarily or basing them on some HR/effort model?
2008-03-27 3:06 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
if you are really serious about running faster...get on the track!  depending on what distance you are focusing on will determine how many intervals and distance.  Run with a group if you can find one and be consistant.  I haven't run intevals for a few years...I've gotten lazy.  But, I think once I get healthy (soon) I'll be at the track every week.


2008-03-27 5:47 PM
in reply to: #1298079

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

rayd - 2008-03-27 4:06 PM But, I think once I get healthy (soon) I'll be at the track every week.

Why????  That does not necessarily benefit you if you are talking interval sessions all the time ....

2008-03-27 5:52 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

I think it's a decent plan, but like everyone else, perhaps don't cut the warmup too much.  It's based on a sound idea though.  I do the same sorta thing, and try and increase the speed by just a bit every week (or more).

Good luck.

2008-03-27 7:22 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Master
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
Thanks I will add 3 min to the tempo and keep the 10 and 10.  I am not really using HR data at this point I am taking the 7 mph or 8:34 mile and want to push that to 3 miles or more my goal is to run sub 25 5k's and to improve my overall pace
2008-03-27 7:37 PM
in reply to: #1298699

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

So on Friday you did "intervals" and then yesterday you did a "tempo" session ......

There is a little bit of a training plan issue here I think.  We have had some pretty lengthy dicussions on "speedwork" over the last few months and what constitutes the need for it.  To be quite honest from a runner's perspective I would recommend that you need to not worry about the speed portion on work on the endurance and volume more.  If all your runs are "speed" based the only thing you are doing is inviting injury and burnout in my experience.

My advice (taken as just that) would be to alter your training to include at least 4 runs a week - if you can fit that in - with one long, two general aerobic and one day with some sort of elevated effort (like a tempo session or including strides which are short efforts with fast turnover and good form).  I would not do "intervals" unless they are at tempo pace.

I'd also figure out exactly what sort of pace you should be running those sessions at.  If you are simply winging it based on RPE and not race results or HR then you could be going too hard or too easy in your sessions.  The McMillan calculator can help to establish those ranges as well as the Daniel's VDOT calculator (google either of those).

2008-03-27 7:42 PM
in reply to: #1298521

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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
Daremo - 2008-03-27 4:47 PM

rayd - 2008-03-27 4:06 PM But, I think once I get healthy (soon) I'll be at the track every week.

Why???? That does not necessarily benefit you if you are talking interval sessions all the time ....

I'm not talking interval sessions all the time. One session a week with an easy day before and after. If your training allows for it, through in a tempo run during that week also. It's not good for anyone to run intervals all the time. The body needs rest days. But if you want to become a faster runner...you have to run fast when you train. And in my opinion, the best place to practice is on the track. Hopefully in a structured workout with some guys that are going to kick your a$$!



2008-03-27 7:45 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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2008-03-27 7:50 PM
in reply to: #1298721

Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

rayd - 2008-03-27 8:42 PM  But if you want to become a faster runner...you have to run fast when you train. And in my opinion, the best place to practice is on the track. Hopefully in a structured workout with some guys that are going to kick your a$$!

I, and many of the top running coaches out there (not putting myself at all in that category - but I just side with them), would heartily disagree with that.  But that is another discussion.

Intervals even once a week for the sake of doing intervals is a very average-high-school-x-country-coach approach to running.  It is not at all effective to long term speed gains or healthy running habits.  VO2 Max gains (which are what typical track intervals are going after) are short lived in the big scheme of running and the risk of injury is very high to a newer runner that does not necessarily know how to pace or recover correctly from them.

Once again, this has been discussed many times on the forum in depth.

2008-03-27 8:11 PM
in reply to: #1298732

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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
Daremo - 2008-03-27 6:50 PM

rayd - 2008-03-27 8:42 PM But if you want to become a faster runner...you have to run fast when you train. And in my opinion, the best place to practice is on the track. Hopefully in a structured workout with some guys that are going to kick your a$$!

I, and many of the top running coaches out there (not putting myself at all in that category - but I just side with them), would heartily disagree with that. But that is another discussion.

Intervals even once a week for the sake of doing intervals is a very average-high-school-x-country-coach approach to running. It is not at all effective to long term speed gains or healthy running habits. VO2 Max gains (which are what typical track intervals are going after) are short lived in the big scheme of running and the risk of injury is very high to a newer runner that does not necessarily know how to pace or recover correctly from them.

Once again, this has been discussed many times on the forum in depth.

I don't think I said to run intervals for the sake of running intervals. And reading my post again, maybe I should have said "gearing up for the race season" which I think most of us are, to bring in intervals as part of your training. I don't know what has been discussed previously on the forum...must have been before my time. What I do know is that I have had my best success at achieving a PR when I have focused for a race with 10 - 12 weeks of interval training after building a good base. The OP, I didn't look at his logs...maybe he doesn't have a running base to hit it hard on the track? I don't either right now as far as that goes. But I will and I'll get back to the track.

Of course, this is just my opinion (based on what has worked for me in the past) and I don't claim to be a coach.

 

2008-03-27 11:01 PM
in reply to: #1297946

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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

I've been running for years and still feel new.  I understand your logic but training hard all the time wont get you there.  When I first started I was "all tempo all the time baby".  I had a 5.2 mile loop that I ran hard every time and once a week tried to break my record.  I eventually broke what was my goal of a 7 min mile.  That plan however was not building much of a base for me.

I've switched to more of a zone training philosophy (thanks to all who patiently convinced me).  I did not lose the speed but my run times are better. I have more endurance and power and more confidence to kick a bit harder on the bike.

bty, why a treadmill?  Get outside and work toward getting at least an hour of running in during a session.

2008-03-28 7:56 AM
in reply to: #1297946

Runner
Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan

What's the purpose of this workout?  How does it fit into the rest of your training?  What are you expecting to gain from it?  What about the rest of your training?

Firstly, I don't see much gain from a tempo run that lasts 10 minutes.  We can all go back and forth (and I believe we have) over what pace to run at, as well as the distance/time.  That being said, I have never seen any suggestion of a tempo run for that period of time.  It's usually longer.  I think 20 minutes is a better option.

Secondly, don't add a tempo workout just because it seems like a good idea.  There should be a specific purpose behind it.  What stage are you at in training?  I have no problem with doing tempo runs year-round, but the length and pace will vary based on where you're at in your training.

With all of that, I wouldn't worry about pace.  Tempo runs are a prime opportunity to work on feel. 



2008-03-28 7:58 AM
in reply to: #1297946

Elite
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Subject: RE: Tempo based speed plan
A good article from MAPP on interval training:
http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm
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