General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Bike Nutrition - how do you do it? Rss Feed  
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2008-05-13 4:03 PM

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Subject: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
This weekend I was on a 60 mile ride with 2,000 feet of climbing. I bonked at around mile 45 which led to dry heaves at mile 54 and I was done for the day. I should also mention that this was the second part of a brick with a relatively slow 50-minute OWS prior.

I talked about it with my training buddies and the general consensus was that I didn't take in enough calories. For the duration of the ride, about 3.5 hours, I took in about 600 calories (total, not hourly). I'm 6'3", 240, so the numbers they came up with are that I should be somewhere around 400-500 calories/hour.

While I don't doubt that number, it sounds awfully high. So, how would I physically go about doing that? I would have to turn into a traveling convenience store to do that! I think last week someone mentioned Little Debbie snacks (or something like that) - is that what you all do? Is this the part where I go out and get a Bento Box, because I don't think my jersey can carry all that!


2008-05-13 4:15 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
At 240 and that height I'd try 400 calories an hour and see if you can tolerate it. It's all about absorbtion and it varies by person sometimes regardless or height and weight.

I do 300 cal an hour on the bike which consists of the following:

GU - Energy gel w/100 cal each
Uncrustables - Portable PB&J sandwiches that start off frozen 210 cal each
Cocktail - My cocktail is 275 cal per bottle and consists of:

1 scoop GU20
2 scoops Carbo Pro
600 mg salt
1 pkg Crystal Light Lemonade
1 pkt Sweet n Low

I supplement yummy things like frozen Peeps (160 cal for 5) and tortilla chips for the drink, GU and Uncrustables. On longer rides I also will take a salt tablet every 40 miles.

Generally I carry all my GU in my bento box, 2 Uncrustables in 1 jersey pocket, peeps and a baggie with my powdered cocktail in the other jersey pocket. 1 aero bottle and 2 cages with bottles of cocktail.

On a longer ride I'll refill my aero bottle several times and mix the powder for 1 additional cocktail bottle then add the tortilla chips to my (should be) empty bento box

It's all about experimentation - have fun!
2008-05-13 4:22 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
I tried solid foods, gu's and honestly could not do it.  I am too scatterbrained so I like the liquid only alternatives but Infiniti and Perpetuum seed expensive so I use a homemade mix of Sugar and MD (Maldodextrin (sp?)) and sometimes salt (more recently S-caps).  I buy the MD from a fellow BTer by the lb.  He gets a 50lb bag for around $50 and that will last forever and sugar/salt are both cheap.  Essentially what I do is mix 1.67 cups of MD and .33 cups sugar in a 24 oz water bottle and I get I think around 600 calories in the bottle (my friend has a handy excel sheet to calculate calories, etc. based on how many cups are used so you can adjust based on your needs).  Then I did a sip test.  Basically to test how big my sips are (2oz in my case) so I get 12 sips in a 24 oz water bottle.  I then set my watch to beep every 3 minutes.  I take 2 oz sips of water ever 3 minutes and every 12 I take a sip of my nutrition.  I then take the scaps based on my needs.  This way the heavilily concentrated mixture is thinned out by the water in my stomach slowly.  For long rides I usually use a camelbak to carry 100 oz of water and then up to 2 "feed bottles".  This cost me very little as the scaps are only around $15 for 100 and you only need to take 1 every 30 minutes max (less if you are not sweating alot).
2008-05-13 4:24 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
What did you have prior to your training session? Full breakfest? Empty stomach? Anything after the swim?
2008-05-13 4:26 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
It's hard. I aim for 250 calories/40-60 grams of carbs per hour.

I have to stay on top of it. I don't like all solid food because I feel like I'm a rolling buffet. And let's face it, when you are working hard, it's hard to eat.

I have also found that my tummy won't tolerate all Infinit. I can mix it in here and there, but not only do it. So I am mixing liquid with solids.

This past Saturday I did a 5.5 hour ride. If you look at my Log you can see what I ate. I also got to stop at a store to buy a soda. Otherwise, I carried all of it in my jersey.
2008-05-13 4:26 PM
in reply to: #1400416

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
running2far - 2008-05-13 2:24 PM

What did you have prior to your training session? Full breakfest? Empty stomach? Anything after the swim?


PRE OWS - Banana, 1 GU, 16oz Cytomax
POST OWS - Banana

Rest was on the bike, in GU or liquid form.


2008-05-13 4:59 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
I've been experimenting with the liquid gu's and gu flask's .. each flask hold 5 gu's or 500 calories.. I can take a couple with me easily, a couple gatoraid's at 150 calories each so without a lot of effort or space  I have 1300 calories
2008-05-13 5:00 PM
in reply to: #1400424

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?

D_M_S - 2008-05-13 4:26 PM
running2far - 2008-05-13 2:24 PM What did you have prior to your training session? Full breakfest? Empty stomach? Anything after the swim?
PRE OWS - Banana, 1 GU, 16oz Cytomax POST OWS - Banana Rest was on the bike, in GU or liquid form.

Could be a combo of things.  If you took in a lot of carbs (as you describe) less than 3 hours before your OWS you may have triggered a hypoglycemic response that doomed your subsequent workout.  Here are some other articles (below) that may help you with determining caloric requirements.  Often, people think you need to take in more calories when in fact the solution is taking in LESS calories per hour.  Good luck.

article

article

article

 

2008-05-13 5:11 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?

I'm training for an IM and working on my nutrition. I've a system that works well for me but am developing plan B and plan C options. Read many IM race reports and you'll often see what normally works fails to work in the IM and they need to try different options.

You probably need to look at your sweat rate and be sure you are hydrating enough as well as taking in enough sodium and electrolyte even more imporatant if you are a heavy sweater or it is hot.

Plan A: 325-350 cal/hour
Gatorade Endurance 1 bottle 150 cal./600 mg sodium; water 1 bottle
Food every 20': Gel on 60'; other food 35-50 calories on 20' & 40'

Plan B:
Gatorade Endurance 1.5- 2bottles an hour which is 225-300 cal/hour
Gel 1 an hour: 110 calories

Plan C:
Water- 1.5-2 bottles an hour
Every 15' Lava salt of 255 mg of sodium each
on 15' and 45' gel
on 30' & 60' food 35-50 calories

35-50 calorie food: Strawberry newton, 1/2 banana, shot blok, candy like gummy bears or no or low fat like 3 Musketeer minix2, chcolate covered pretzels

It is a lot to carry for sure...jersey pockets & bento box helps. With my longer rides I have to stop to refill water so I add more food too.

2008-05-13 5:47 PM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
I'm no expert - but I'll add my .02 here anyway - and I'm interested in others' answers. I'm a little light at 155 lbs and I do a 60 mile bike ride on the weekend. I usually start the gels at 1 hour and have one every 30 - 50 minutes. Each gel is 110 calories. I'm riding between 19 and 20 mph so about the same rate as you. I generally do not eat for a couple of hours before the bike ride. I'm here in Denver so I am riding at elevation and have steady increases/decreases in elevation (the Garmin says ~ 1800 ft).
2008-05-14 10:36 AM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
I appreciate all the replies.

It definitely sounds like I need to do more experimentation. I'll be trying the Uncrustables sandwhiches because a couple others recommended them too. I'll also be trying to add some protein calories into the mix. And I WILL have to add a Bento Box, no way I can carry all of this


2008-05-14 10:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?

I tried packing a bunch of groceries with me on my long rides because of bonking issues until a couple friends suggested "Infinit".  Now, I just take a couple GU's with me along with the Infinit.

It's good stuff. 

2008-05-14 10:47 AM
in reply to: #1400424

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?

D_M_S - 2008-05-12 11:26 PM
running2far - 2008-05-13 2:24 PM What did you have prior to your training session? Full breakfest? Empty stomach? Anything after the swim?
PRE OWS - Banana, 1 GU, 16oz Cytomax POST OWS - Banana Rest was on the bike, in GU or liquid form.

I think one banana post only is not enough.

I did something very similar to you today:

early morning 2.2km in the pool and no breakfast before

rich brekfast with banana, skim milk and plenty of cereals (I can not say how much but a lot)

1 hour rest on the sofa watching TV

3h30' ride on a hilly course where I did 92km at easy pace and during the ride I had a small fruit bar in the second hour (84kcal) and I finished two bottles of 750ml each. One was plain water and the other one Powerbar orange.

Then I closed with a brick of 10km exactly in 45'40".

As you can see, I prefer to eat well ALWAYS before I do sport, either the night before (as I did yesterday night) or right before the ride.

For me, eating while I do sport is pretty difficult.

2008-05-14 11:16 AM
in reply to: #1400424

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
D_M_S - 2008-05-13 5:26 PM

running2far - 2008-05-13 2:24 PM

What did you have prior to your training session? Full breakfest? Empty stomach? Anything after the swim?


PRE OWS - Banana, 1 GU, 16oz Cytomax
POST OWS - Banana

Rest was on the bike, in GU or liquid form.


How far out did you eat/drink that stuff? If it's within three hours of a workout or race I only take in sips of water and rarely eat anything, it just messes up my system. If you took in all that just before you started it would explain a lot. To start, an empty stomach is a happy stomach, just start taking in your calories when you get out of the water.

2008-05-14 11:24 AM
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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
What's your bike training base look like prior to this ride? Is it possible you out-rode your strength, endurance, and prior training, rather than having a nutritional bonk?
2008-05-14 11:33 AM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
Regarding this single ride, it's hard to say. It could be a combination of pre training meal, fatigue from the swim, too few calories on the bike, rode too hard for your fitness level, and/or "just a bad day".

600 calories over 3.5 hours for someone your size is not very much. If it were an easy effort you probably wouldn't have much problem, but coming off the swim and if you're getting up in your zone 3&4 efforts you would be riding on empty.

As a guideline you should shoot for 1gm of carbohydrate for every kg of body weight. At 240 pounds that's 108gms or 432 carb calories.

You could take in a gel every 15 minutes to hit that number. You could do a gel every 30 minutes and consume a bottle of sports drink every 30 minutes. You can have Infinit mixed to those specifications. You can buy bulk maltodextrin or carbo-pro and mix your own 432 calorie bottles.

scott


2008-05-14 12:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?

I'm the one that does the little debbies. I eat every 30 min and I strive to hit 300-400 calories per hour. (mostly it's around 300 and then every other hour I'll have a coke or something that pumps it up).

I found that on less than 300 calories per hour I felt awful when I got done.

At 300-400, I feel tired but good when I get done, which is important if you have run after riding!

My coach is the one who told me to target 400 per hour. And I am a 5'4" 135 lb female.  FWIW, she does the same thing and is a 5'3" 120 lb female. I think though, around 400 is about as much as your body can absorb while exercising. I know on the run I only get about 200 calories per hour.

I pack as much on me as I can and then take money to stop at convenience stores (little debbies are only $.35!)

Edited to add:

Last year during my HIM, my coach was riding her bike along the run route where I was plugging away, slow but I felt strong and was keeping my pace where I wanted it. We passed by a very fit looking dude who was obviously miserable, walking, who looked about ready to collapse. My coach, within earshot of said fit dude, says "that's what happens when you don't nail your nutrition".

Harsh, but true.



Edited by SuzanneS 2008-05-14 12:22 PM
2008-05-16 10:12 PM
in reply to: #1401980

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
the bear - 2008-05-14 9:24 AM

What's your bike training base look like prior to this ride? Is it possible you out-rode your strength, endurance, and prior training, rather than having a nutritional bonk?


Yes, that is possible. However, I've been part of the May challenge and I've been putting in consistent, weekday, training rides of 20+ miles, and I'm coming off a strong sprint tri where I placed, so I'm feeling good about my fitness and 60 doesn't seem like too much of a stretch for a long ride.

So, there's really a lot of variables to this. I'm repeating the ride again tomorrow with a huge number of calories and we'll see how it goes.

I'll report back soon
2008-05-20 9:25 AM
in reply to: #1400365

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Subject: RE: Bike Nutrition - how do you do it?
I like to use 2 cal per pound of lean body weight as a starting point.

So if you are 200 with 10% body fat = 180 lbs lean body weight x 2 360 calories per hour.

If you are 150 @ 15% body fat, 127 lbs x 2 = 255 calories.

I find very very few athletes that need more than 350 calories and they are either Pro's or clysdesdales. Larger males do great at 275 to 300. Ladies 225 - 260.

The single most important part of absorbing calories is to make sure that you are getting a mix of carbs. Maltodextrin is great, but you need to mix it wil other types of carbs. That will increase the number of calories your body can use by 25-30%. Maltodextrine should never be your sole source of calories.

Chances are that if you are bonking by using combinations of food, gels and drinks, you are not putting them in a form that your body can use effeciently.

Most time less is better as long as you are putting it in a combination that your body can process.

My 2c
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