hip pain- but whats the final word?

"re: in seemingly heavy runners..."
not heavy like BMI, but heavy like 5+ miles per run.
sorry for the cofusion!
blue

It sounds like your sciatica nerve, if your lower back and legs hurt. The nerve goes down the back of your legs and if pinched can cause numbess. Sometimes this happens because during all that running your muscles become tight and shift the angle of your hips. Stretching out your hips and the lumbar region of your back IF this is the problem should give you some relief. I am not a doctor, but I have been having this problem with my hips off and on since my cross country days. It is fine until I get lazy and stop stretching like I need to.

I suggested Yoga to Yoshiko, because that has helped the most with loosening my hips. I find it a lot harder to stretch my hips well because they are so much tighter than the rest of my body, and it takes me going through the posistions repeatedly to warm up the muscles and then actually begin the stretching. Pigeon pose, is one I highly suggest. Also the deep breathing in yoga helps open the muscles by getting more oxygen to them while you are stretching. When I exhale I try to drop just a little bit deeper.

Another thing I do is lay on the floor on my stomach and have my SO take his palms and press down on my lower back right before my butt, not just down but away from him toward my rear. For some reason this takes the pressure off and provides temporary relief that I don't get from Ibuprofen.

There are some hip stretches that other people advocate, but pick the ones that you feel give you the most benefit. My hips get so tight, that some of the spinal twists that are also supposed to stretch the hips do nothing for me. Its like trying to stretch a board.

Go to one yoga studio, before the class go up to the teacher and tell them you've been having problems with your hips casually ask if there are any stretches you can do to help it. Odds are they will take the hint from you and focus on your hip stretches during the class. (Just as a side note I say yoga studio, only b/c I have had some interesting experiences going to gym yoga classes, I wasn't quite sure it was yoga, plus most places are about $10 plus a $2 mat rental and its a hellava lot cheaper than going to the doctor, or getting on meds) I did the chiropractor thing for a while and it helped, but it wasn't permanent and even he told me STRETCH!!!

Happy Training.
Peace.

Isn't this hip problem extremely frustratin? I am sometimes in tears thinking about the fact I can't run much at all and racing season is coming up... "What is the final word" - I am still searching for that myself.

Sounds like your problem is very different from mine and you haven't seen a Dr yet about your problem? I am not sure how long you are having this problem/how severe. Although I do recommend you see a Sport Dr, honestly I don't know how much he/she can help. After seeing two different Dr's and two sets of PT, I had little improvement.

As for me, I went back to my first Athletic medecine Dr. with the MRI result (hip bursitis), because the Dr who ordered the MRI couldn't see me until a month later (what a joke). Because this 'bursitis' doesn't give me much pain around the greater trochanteric (sp?) area, he recommend no specific treatment for that. The MRI result also stated 'minor blunting on labrum, but not a tear'. He is not sure exactly what can be done to address that, because hip arthroscopic is probably the only way to see exactly what is going on but that is costly, no specialist nearby, and it is likely the 'blunting' is nothing serious that causes my groin pain. I have started some serious stretching (1hr/day) a week ago or so and it seems that is helping a bit. I ran twice now (20minutes each with some walk in the middle) without pain. Well, almost - some soreness came back after the second run.... So anyway he decided not to do anything to treat the current condition. However, what the Dr. found out, during some checking on my biomechanics, is, my pelvis is tilted. My legs are the same length, but pelvis is tilted/twisted. He is not sure that was caused by my tight various hip muscles or tight muscles caused my hip to become uneven, but either way, that needs to be addressed if I want to continue a long distance running. So he prescribed O.M.P.T. (Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapy). The therapists with this special training are particularly familiar with sports injuries related to bone/muscle/tendon unbalance and are very hands-on to work with the involved musculoskeletal conditions. So here I am again, excited about a possible REAL fix for my issue. I shouldn't have a high hope, but can't help it. I have been dealing with this for almost 6 months. If it was a bursitis, it should have gone with no running for this long... (I have little confidence in the radiologist who read my MRI, I still think the pain is caused by something else. Again, the very root cause might be the uneven pelvis, but the current pain must have an immediate reason - not bursitis.)

I have been doing Yoga once a week for a month now, as Kanoelani said. I like it. I want to say it is helping, but not sure - I guess 1/wk for one month is not enough to see a positive resutl. I am planning to stick with it, along with my own serious stretching.

I will keep you posted about what this OMPT does (my first appo is next Monday - 3x/wk). I know I have to be patient, giving at least a few weeks to see any change.

Meanwhile, I am planning to stick with my 20minutes light spinning as a warm up and 20minutes running every other day for a couple of weeks. Can I call this a 'super mini brick workout'?

Stay positive...

In addition to yoga and stretching you might want to consider deep tissue and/or trigger point massage on the area. You can do self massage by sitting on a ball and working it into the tender area. A tennis ball works, but there's also the tp massage ball.

good luck.

scott

thanks for all the advice, guys. while i very stubbornly resist yoga, i caved and had a friend show me the pidgeon pose and ive been doing it twice a day since last week. i must admit that it feels a lot better. did a 5k on sunday and got through it okay. its still bugging me a little though.
keep me posted on ya'lls recover and ill do the same.
eb

Hi guys,

I am making a baby step toward a full comeback. My run is still only 2.5 miles but ran every other day for two weeks now. I am getting better. The O.M.P.T. I am seeing knows a lot about running and its biomechanical motions. According to him, I have a very tight Tensor fasci lata (sp?) - deep muslce connected to the top/behind IT band. My ITB is tight too. It is a very difficult muscle to stretch. He does lots of deep massage around the area. He showed me a few stretches, but does anybody know any stretches on TFL? Foam roller/ball is great too. It is a loooong way to get back to 35mpw+ base, but I am looking forward to an each run. I hope my long run becomes 9-10miles by April.

Yoshiko

I have had similar problems with my hips/ glutes. I finally found total relief in a product called tp massage ball. Before you give up, log onto this website www.tpmassageball.com. The owner of the company is a fellow triathlete who suffered from fibromyalgia most of his life. This ball has saved my sanity and training season!

good luck,
Bryan

Hey yaqui,
Have you used the tp massage ball? If you did,what did you think of it? The reason I am asking, is because I have used it with great results. You can see in my post below.

Bryan

I know this has been said before, I've even said it before, but consider yoga. The pigeon pose is amazing. I don't mean the tapes or a book, go to a class let the teacher know before hand about your hips, odds are they can give you pointers on different stretches.

It helps I'll swear by it. Ive done the combination of massage, chiropractor, and yoga, and I have to say yoga is what keeps me away from having to do the other two more expensive choices. Plus there are some that would say yoga is self-induced myo-facia release. Ask your OMPT about it.

Peace.

I've read these two threads on here plus the long Runner's World one ( http://forums.runnersworld.com/thread.jspa?forumID=22&threadID=2163... for anybody who missed it the first time around).

I have similar symptoms but thought it wasn't anything more than inflammation because it's always gone away within 12 hours of flaring up. Last night, however, it was actue for the first time and actually kept me awake all night in pain. It's fine now. I suspect it comes from hyperextending my hip when doing a particular ab exercise, which I'm going to stop and see if it goes away. It never hurts after my long run (always outside), which leads me to think it's either something I'm doing during strength training, or running on the dreadmill. Running, so far and knock wood, has caused me no lasting injuries, but then I only run 10 - 11.5 miles per week right now. I really, really love running so anything that makes me think it's threatened kinda freaks me out.

I know that, for example, with torn ACL/PCL knee problems you can strengthen the stabalizing muscles and live a normal life. To avoid shoulder rotator cuff injuries from lifting heavy weights you are supposed to strengthen your rotator cuff. I would imagine that it's similar for the hip...anybody ever heard of anything like that? What would you strengthen? Glutes/quads/hams? Lower back?

Also, for others with the hip pain, did yours start as non-chronic and progress? Did anybody's just go away on its own with some rest? IE - should I be more worried than I am and go see my GP?

Thanks

I would reccomemd going to a good chiropractor and massage therapist. They can correct any biomechanical probs, and prescibe excercises and stretching to help. This is what I have always done in the past, along with the tpmassage ball, and it has kept me training.

Good luck,
bryan

madeye- my injury started non-chronic and excalated. im totally freaked about injuring myself, so i backed way off and started streching and strengthening the area and cut running out for a week. the weird thing is, after a week, i thought it was fine. i wasnt feeling any pain at night, i felt fine when i started running again, the streches felt great. i was careful not to dive back in too fast. but in the past couple days, the pain is coming back and taking over more of my leg than before. i guess im going to have to break down and see a doc.
dont know if this helps-- i was so sure i did everything right and it was better but now im starting to think its just best to get a pro working with you asap.
one thing i know: dont mess around with pain for more than a few days. you could be out for months if you dont fix it early.
good luck!
eb

another question:
does anyone feel any clicking in their hip when you strech?
not like the clicking in knees and ankles but like a tendon or ligament is caught and at some point in the strech, it clicks over to the other side of something. its like the strech doesnt work until i feel two or three things shift around in there, and then it just hurts. it feels like pencils in there, or a phone cord or something. anyone?
im just curious if this is a good thing (like the streches are working out years of tight muscles and tendons) or a bad thing (like the clicking is new and could be damaging my.. stuff).
thanks guys.
eb

My hip pain started non-chronic (pain went away by the next run) and started staying with me for a few days. I rested and visited PT for a few weeks but it never went away completely (I don't believe the issue was properly addressed). As far as strengthening the muslces around the troubled spot on a hip, I was told strengthening is important, but injured muslces have to get enough stretching in order to benefit from strengthening. Usually knee pain can get better relief by strengthening the surrounding muslces than hip does. My previous PT gave me lots of strengthening exercises without deep hands-on stretching. My current PT does lots of manual stretching and after a week he started having me do some strengthening - and this is working!! He thinks my hip pain is caused by a very tight tensor fasci lata (sp?) which is a very difficult muslce to stretch, combined with weak butt muscle. He really digs deeeeep in my hip to do deep massage. I get sore but no pain during a run.

My right hip (which is the one giving me trouble now) and right shoulder have a deep clicking that they make, totally different from when a joint "pops". It happens when I do particular things, like lowering my leg from lifting my knee to my chest...it gets nearly to the floor and *crunch/click*. I don't associate it with anything good....it doesn't hurt and has done this most of my life, but I don't think it's per se a good or bad thing. OTOH, I do have bursitis in the shoulder that grinds and clicks, and the hip that makes noises is the one that's bothering me. :|

Thanks all for the feedback. I'm taking a few days completely off from any activity (very unhappy about that) and will see how I feel after that. Will probably go visit a chiropractor if it doesn't resolve, I'm probably just misaligned and breaking my fool self.

yo, 2 words. Medical Marijuina, Peace.
Jdog

I have the same problem with the popping. I was told it was a tendon that was popping over the bone.

Below is part of an article I found. That I think you might find interesting, it doesn't specifically talk about the hips, but about the body in general, but I think to a degree it explains why training hard affects more than just our muscles, and why stretching is so important to keeping your body in alignment.

Sorry its kind of long.

Peace.

As much as the muscles are crucial to swimming, cycling and running, fascial tissues are an often-overlooked part of human anatomy -- yet they are a fundamental part of what keeps us upright and moving. Fascia is a fibrous structural tissue that envelops the muscles, bones and joints, supporting the body and helping to give shape to the human form. Some anatomists contend that if you removed the skeleton from a human body, the body would still be able to stand based on the integrity of the fascial system. Along with this structural role, fascia also provide leverage for the muscles to work against.

The superficial fascia consists of subcutaneous fat and loose connective tissue, which protects and supports blood vessels and nerves. Your superficial fascia can be distinguished by simply grabbing the skin on your arm, for example, and lifting it away from the underlying muscle. The deep fascia is a little more complex. Deep fascia can be compared to the insulating outer layer found on electrical cords. Each muscle has this type of fibrous sheath containing it, which is why we can see distinct muscle groups when we look at an anatomy diagram. And within each muscle, every muscle fiber has its own fascial covering down to a microscopic level. The collection of these fibers forms tendons at the ends of the muscle, which allows it to attach to a continuation of the fascia that covers the bone, called the periosteum.

The point of all of this is that as much as your muscles might get tight after a tough training session, your fascial tissues are just as likely to become restricted, and they are very adept at maintaining poor postural patterns. So you can stretch until you?re blue in the face, but unless you open the container that houses your muscles you're not really getting anywhere.

So what can we do about all this? Well, for a start, adequate hydration can make your muscle and fascia more supple and elastic, plus soft-tissue therapies like myofascial massage, rolfing and hellerwork can help to stretch and release the fascia, thus allowing the muscles to expand and lengthen. Some types of yoga that hold the postures until the body releases can also be helpful.

Massage can also be used for breaking up adhesions in tight muscle, which can have the same affect as scar tissue, making the affected tissue less flexible and more prone to tearing. Scar tissue itself can be made less rigid and more supple with regular massage, and in some cases you may be able to learn some self-massage techniques to help the process along

Interesting article kanoelani. Thanks.

Just a follow up from me, I went to my GP today who sternly told me to lay off the strength training and running for 2 weeks (cycling and swimming got the OK), take some NSAIDs and a..not really muscle relaxer but a product called Skelaxin that has helped with minor nerve issues before, and see where we go from there. So...we'll see. Seems I do probably have a touch of bursitis in my hip indicated by the grinding and clicking, but it's nothing to be alarmed about and, like my shoulder bursitis, will probably flare up mostly when it's damp and chilly. I can live with that.

Good luck to everybody with your hip problems, I hope they get sorted out soon. Thanks for this thread.

There is no doublt that the PT has been very helpful (2 weeks now). I ran 3.5-4miles every other day for the last 1.5weeks or so. I don't have any pain during a run, but my hip gets sore afterwords. Yesterday's 4-mile run gave me more soreness than usual (I stopped a few times to stretch too) and I am discouraged and concerned..... did I do too much too soon during this recovery period... Or, the problem PT identified is not really the real or sole problem my hip..... I am doing Yoga, using foam roller, doing proper warm up/coold down (wel, I didn't do my usual 10minutes treadmill-walking/cycling warmup prior to the yesterday's run because I didn't have an access to those at my in-law's house), and I thought I saw the end of the tunnel.... but now I can't see the end again......

I am depressed all over again....

Learn more on core stability for runnng and proper running form. Talk to a PT who is a runner, and also if you have odd feet get orthotics. It made a huge difference for me learning how to run like a kenyan Ive gone through the 2 courses of PT and it is extremely depressing when you go back to run and the pain is back. Best of luck to you, dont get to down it took me 9 months to get it healed.

Edited by silent 2005-02-21 6:44 PM

silent - will you share a little more deail on your 9-month recovery? How long did it take you to realize what you were doing (core strengthening training + proper form) was working? I have been having my hip problem for half a year and there is no clear sign of this thing getting better, heading to the 4th week of physical therapy..... and I am running a mere 2 miles every other day... I know I need to be patient, but HOW LONG???? I just can't believe 'tight muslces' cause soooo much trouble. When a 2-mile run gives me some soreness a day after and 6hrs-drive makes the same hip spot sore, it is really depressing.....

AGGGGGGGGG!!!!!

Ok this may be a little bit long but its all to help a fellower tri'r
*I AM NOT A DOC THIS IS JUST WHAT THEY TOLD ME TO DO

Stability is a huge gain, the more stabiltiy on your legs the more coming back out. Less strain on hips, torso, upperbody, and its just more efficient.

-The first thing is knee stabiltity - get a solid platform about 6 inches high and a miror or video camera etc
-With shoes on plant one foot on the box about an Inch from the edge, now this is what makes it tricky, lowwer yourself down on 1 foot (the foot on the box) on the foot planted on the box, from your knee down theyr should be almost 0 movement and no side to side shaking
-Do 15-30 reps 2 sets on each side with GOOD form sloppy wont help

-Once that is masterd at 30 reps 2 sets, now lets get the hams and quads more used to running
- Get a chair and mimic the what you did before except now you wont be moving 6 inch, youll be moving 12-18. Do NOT let the bottom part of your knee lock or move much.
20 reps 2 -3 sets
-then move to higher chair etc.

------Proceed when you can do the above steps with little to know movement below the knee----

- Now apply this to the run - do lunges now but change it a little bit, go longer and make your form "flow" try to make it smooth with no "glitches" when one legs down let the other one start to move foreward.
20 feet 2-3 sets

Now take a 12 inch box and set it on the ground
Stand about a foot behind the box, wind up for a squat and go down as low as you can without anything below the knee jerking, now jump like a kenyan without anything below the knee moving. Land as softly as you can on the box and DO NOT let your knee shoot foreward on the landing on to the box. The quieter the softer your landing. Now do the same jumping off. ANd clear the box by a good 6-8 inches before you land, height is key.
*Do 3-4 sets of 15-20
Continue doing all of the above for a 3-4 weeks then increase the boxes height and continue being a hopper

Now that you have suffecient strength do 1 legged squats go down WITHOUT the front part of the knee moving and spring foreward and up and land onto the next foot, DO NOT try to make a bigger gait by extending the "resting foot" just land to the next one then go squat down on the opposite foot and repete.



*I will finish after I get in my bike ride

saved my triathlon season and my sanity.  I was suffering from hip and lower back pain so badly that I thought I had arthritis in my hip.  I was one phone call away from going to an orthopedist to think about hip surgery!  I stubled upon this site: www.tpmassageball.com. I discovered that many overuse injuries and chronic pain are caused by triggerpoints or tiny muscle spasms. These trigger points come about through training and not taking care of our muscles. To make a long story short, I got immediate relief when I used this ball. I use it 2x daily, and I no longer suffer from the common overuse injuries.  You should check this site out before you drop your savings on countless doctor visits and medications.  I can give you much more info- just email me [email protected].