Beginner - Train for Duration or Train for Distance?

here is a link to an article by Jim Vance

http://www.competitorsocal.com/training/time-vs.-distance-the-great-training-debate.html 

Running/walking is just fine and many do that as a course of action.  I had a 12 year old boy, beat me in a 5k run recently.  He would run hard, get tired, walk, recover and then run hard again.  We did the yoyo for about a mile and eventually as I kept slowing on the last mile, he kept going.  Search Jeff Galloway

Swim:  Do sets of swimming for the time of the workout.  So, if you can only do 50yrds at one time now, then do 50 yrds with rests and when that gets too difficult, do 25 yrds.  Incorporate swim drills into your swim. 

Thanks for the link to the article!  It was good reading.

I think the article is saying the time spent in a workout is probably the best measure of training your body receives vs. simply measuring a distance traveled.  The little kink in that line of thought for me though is the fact I have such a short time line to get ready.

I believe training for an amount of time would be best as well and as a matter of fact the 13 week Sprint program posted on this website is based on time or duration of training an event.

For me, I'm going to try and find a happy middle ground.  I need to try and get to actual event distances as soon as possible just so I will know what it feels like and get my bidy accustomed to it, yet I need to be aware that if it takes too long I may end up over-stressing my body and risk injury or burnout.

For swimming the 2 events I plan to run this year are only a 300 yard and 400 yard swim - I can already complete that at around a 2:45 pace per 100 yards.  So for swim I will train for duration according to the last 5 weeks in the 13 week plan.

Bike distance in these Sprints is 13 miles, I can do that but take too long, so the times listed in the 13 week program are too short for me to complete the distance so I will train for improving my time for a 13 mile distance.

Running is the hardest to figure out, I need to put in 5k each workout I believe to just get my legs conditioned for it - no matter the time it takes and if I have to toss in some walking time.

I just came back from the YMCA this evening - I actually completed 3.21 miles (12 laps on this track, ea. lap is a little more than a 1/4 mile).  I was able to "slog" 6 laps (about 1.5 miles), walked 1 lap, then slogged the last 5 with 1 more lap walk to cool down.  Forgot my watch so I guess-timate it took between 50 to 55 minutes.

The way my legs feel now I probably should not have done all 3.21 miles but just gone for 40 or 45 minutes (duration), but as long as I can recover in a day or two I will try to log in at least 3.21 miles and work on speed and time.

If anyone has a better approach or opinion as to whether this seems like a decent plan or a horrible plan, I would be most grateful to hear from you.

You really need to take into consideration what your body can handle.  Complete the workouts for the last 5 weeks, following the times given.  Vary your intensity on your runs.  If you can't run for the full time listed in a workout that's okay.  Work in some short sprints followed by walking or jogging as well as running/walking.  You can do the same for swimming and biking.  It is always good to throw in some speed work to get your heart rate up.  But don't worry if you can't sprint for the first couple of weeks. Work your body into condition and your time and distance will come together.  If you try to push yourself to the distances right away you risk overuse injuries.  The purpose of these plans is to get you to the distances you want to compete in.   

Well Dang,

Guess I'm doing all wrong, just did about 3.5 miles today, but at a slow pace. I was able to complete 13 laps around a track in which 12 laps equals 3.21 miles.  Back on Monday was able to only run 6 laps, walk the 7th, run the last 5.

I've read a little about Chi running and decided to try that, I took smaller but quicker strides, landed mid-foot vs. on my heel, worked on keeping my hips/pelcis level and spine straight.  Too my 46 minutes for about 3.5 miles.  Monday was the first time I've ran in 15 - 20 years but have been doing up to 64 minutes on an Eliptical machine.

So, you think it's better to just train for a certain time, such as 30 minutes, and mix in some speed laps with some walking, etc ... rather than to slowly plod out 3.21 miles, then 3.5 miles the next run, then 3.75 miles, etc .... ?

Just enjoy this race.  You have no idea what you want or how they go off. 

Plod along run/walk for 30 minutes.  Swim slowly for 10 minutes.  Bike leisurely for 45 minutes, mix and match these per day and only do two of them on a hard day and one on an easy day.  You'll be well ready for the race and if you're in any kind of shape, you'll do okay.

After this one, figure out how long it is until the next one you want to do and pull down a workout plan to go along with that time table.  You'll have a much better idea what the heck is going on and you'll be able to see where you want to fit in with the races from there. 

If anything, I would recommend following the 10% rule for running.  If you're body is not used to running, these long (for you) workouts might seem okay for a week or two, but then you might really start to suffer after that.  Personally I think it makes more sense to slog, walk, or gut it out on race day, then to break yourself a few weeks before the race.  Or course whether or not you're in danger of breaking yourself is going to depend on your age, prior fitness, genetics, biomechanics, etc.

Machs nichts.  Time, distance, either way works just as well as the other.  I do both.

There is nothing wrong with heel striking.  Overstriding, yes.  Heel striking, no. 

Just gtet out there and s/b/r without worrying too much about it.  At this stage, I doubt you can go horribly wrong except by overtraining.  Anything you do within reason is going to be a physiological benefit.

And don't worry about heel striking.  Lots of people -- including elite runners -- do it.  If that's your natural gait, do it.  Just don't overstride, as Scout says.   Your feet should strike the ground roughly underneath your center of gravity.  If they strike well out in front of your c.o.g., then you're overstriding, and probably 'braking' with your heels as well as doing other unspeakable things.  Trying NOT to heel strike will cause you all sorts of grief, and to what benefit? None (IMO).

 OK, the first option is what would be called an "interval session".

It is much more preferable to do the second option (run slow), at least for now.

You want to run the mileage at a somewhat consistent, easy pace.  This will develop your endurance, and your muscles and bones.  Running steadily, but slowly, allows for this. 

I've been wondering about this very thing lately, thanks for the advice.

Thanks to all for the advice,

I believe I will try to stick with the slow, plodding method I've started and do the full 3.21 miles (actually 3.5 miles yesterday) and try to add that 10% each time out ... simply because my first tri is coming up so soon and I want to make sure I can go the distance if even at a slow jog.

I already know that I will run another spint tri on Oct 18th ... only about 30 days in between ... but probably after that it will be at least a few months .. then I think I'll try the interval training, periods of fast run followed by walking or slow jog ... and train for a certain time limit.  Or maybe do this 2 out of 3 training runs with the 3rd being a distance training.

I espcially like the info on heel striking.  I was worried landing mid-foot would destroy my feet, arches, everything ... but actually found out yesterday that it didn't bother me at all ... matter of fact I feel great today, barely any leg muscle soreness at all and Zero hip, back, or knee pain.

I did notice I would strike a little on my heel and was concerned, but apparently that is okay as well and shouldn't affect anything.  I do think my running style before trying this had always been one of "over striding" ... even though I was still landing on my heels.

I think this is what always lead to my hip, low back, and knee pain and eventually sore heels and mile plantar faciaitis (sp?)

Sticking with a slow consistent distance pace may be best for me because the first day I ran, I slowed way once and then after that 1 lap of walking I found it VERY hard to get into my run pace again.  Legs were very heavy first few steps and I felt like my whole breathing and rhythm was messed up and I was ready to quit for the day.

I may be the type that has to keep on going and going, no matter how slow I get, cause once I stop I don't feel like starting up again.  Hopefully once I get in better shape the start and stops won't bother me.

Thanks again for the responses.

Don't try to add 10% every time you head out the door.

Here's a slightly better, more realistic option:

 Take your current weekly mileage, add about 10% to it, then lay out your runs to meet that new total.  A mix of one longer run, one or two medium runs, and the rest shorter seems to be the most common method.  Of course, the shorter ones may not matter much right now if you're going out three times a week.   As an example:

Week 1 (10 miles total):
3,4,3

Week 2 (11 miles total):
3,5,3

Week 3 (12 miles total):
4,5,3

Just an example, the numbers are meaningless. 

Oooohhh!!

That is what they mean by increase 10%.... I see what you mean now.  I thought it meant run 3 miles day1, then 3.3 miles the next run, then 3.63 miles, etc ...

This makes even more sense as it also allows for a little bit of that interval training to come into play.  For example, in the Week 2 scenario if I could not run 5 miles on the 2nd run, maybe I run 4 miles, walk 1/4 mile, then run out the last 3/4 mile ... the main objective being that I did 5 miles total ... and when added to the other days the Weekly total is 11 miles or 10% more than last week.

Ah yes ... I'm starting to see the light now ... this would also allow for a little bit of recovery on the sort run days and help prevent overuse injury ... very smart .....

Do I have the concept right now???

Yep, that's pretty much it.

I cannot speak with too much expertise when it comes to the run/walk stuff.  There are several people here who use that method, and they can give you some more insight into how to set that up.  You could also do a search (here and Google) for "Galloway".

Remember, take things easy.  It seems counterintuitive right now, but easier running now will lead you to greater long-term success.

Thanks again for all the advice.

I've read those articles on Jeff Galloway and the Galloway method, as well as the articles on Chi Running.

I'm hoping to get my legs in shape and condition them for the running, my endurance seems fine right now as I'm not really breathing hard at all.  I guess doing 43 to 64 minutes of Eliptical machine almost every day since March 2008 had given me more endurance than I realized.

The problem is when I try to run any faster or with longer strides, or after a previous workout session the same day my legs tighten up and I get cramps, (such as last week did a 45 minute aerobics class then ran on treadmill - cramped up within first minute).

If I get my legs in shape I think I would make dramatic improvements in distance because like I said, I only had to take maybe a couple of deep breaths during the whole 3.5 mile run I did yesterday.

~

I would actually suggest emphasizing the swimming overall.  That's the most intimidating part for most beginners, especially if it's OWS, not a pool swim. Train the pool for distance, and try to be able to swim double (or at least 150%) of what the race swim is.  If nothing else, you will know that the distance is doable, and not feel overwhelmed. 

The rest of it I would suggest first doing individually the bike and run (even if it's at a walk) distance, to get an idea of your starting point for times.  Then work your training as time, shooting to get twice the expected time of each sport in a week. For example, if the bike takes you 80 minutes on the "test run", get in at least 160 minutes of biking/week.  Split it up however you want. Try to put together a brick on Labor Day weekend (2 weeks before your race) of the bike and run distances, to get a sense of your progress, and feel confident of your ability to finish.

Then, after you are hooked on the sport, analyze your weak areas and build them up for your next race....