General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Have i not been changing gears correctly? Rss Feed  
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2008-08-31 8:12 AM

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Subject: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Still a newbie rider here....been riding and training for a little more than 3 months.   I have a Specialized Allez road bike.

No one ever really showed me how to change gears, nor did i research it much on my own.   So here is how i ride and adjust my gears.

The chain is on the smaller ring up front and i never change that.   All my ring changes occur on the rear.   If i'm going up hill, i click to a bigger ring to spin faster and get up hill easier.   If i'm going downhill i put it in the smallest ring to help me spin while going down.   On a flat stretch i keep it on a smaller ring to give me resistance and speed.   

That is all i've ever done with my gears.

However, i used my trainer last night for the first time with a Spinerval DvD and now i'm wondering how much i am missing.   During the DvD you are instructed to change rings and i was totally lost.   I just adjusted my tension up and down the back rings and didn't worry about it.   But what am i really missing?

Is it ok to continue to use just the rear rings and leave the front ring where it's at or do i really need to learn to move them both?   It's all confusing for me and moving the rear ring up and down is easy for my brain to understand.

Can someone give me an easy and "dummy" version of gear changing and why it's important and how to learn it?



2008-08-31 8:16 AM
in reply to: #1640113

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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Yes, you're missing alot!  Assuming you've got 2 rings up front, you're only using "half" your bike....maybe less as I think most actually use their big ring most often  Short version - use big ring up front on flats and downhills, small ring up front for hills.  Also, you almost NEVER want to be in the small ring up front at the same time you're in the small cog on the rear.  Same with big/big.

I'm sure others more knowledgeable then I will chime in about gear ratios, cross chaining etc. 

2008-08-31 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

No, you're not necessarily missing anything. Unless you're "spinning out" while on your small chainring, there's no reason to go to the big one. By spinning out, I mean spinning >110 or so RPMs where you're effectively not applying power.. This would occur in  your 39-13 gear at around 27-28mph.

The other thing you need to watch for is "cross chaining," where you have the chain on the small chainring and the small cog in the rear. This puts excessive strss on the drive train.

On a most of my training rides I stay in my small chainring. Folks who stay on their big chainring and average <20mph need to look at their candence.



Edited by the bear 2008-08-31 8:21 AM
2008-08-31 9:25 AM
in reply to: #1640113

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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

I have to disagree with The Bear, which is not to say he's wrong I just have a difference of opinion on this. I have two attributes when it comes to cycling, the first is high wattage output for very short bursts which translates into being a good Sprinter. I'm the protected one when we race as a team. Sit in till the end then BOOM for 15 seconds. I can not however push the same wattage for long periods as my mates.

The other is a stupidly high cadence. When riding with team mates I am consistently 10-20% higher on my cadence than my two buddies who are just more powerful than I. IN MY OPINION (and please read as MY OPINION) you need to start working intervals in your "large" ring to build power and Threshold endurance.

If you know your avg cadence when cruising you can start going into the large ring and starting from the inside run up the rear cassette in 1 minute intervals trying to maintain that avg cadence. Some cal these spin-ups.

Find a gear combo (I don't know what you're running as far as your gears) that you can cruise in Z3/Z4 and start running 5 or 6 minute intervals. Eventually you can work up to twenties, that's twenty minute intervals in a high gear staying just sub-threshold.

When I'm barreling down the road at 27 mph I can promise you I'm not in my small chainring...

Good luck...

Eric J

2008-08-31 9:36 AM
in reply to: #1640118

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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
I agree with the bear.  You only need to use the big chain ring if you're spinning out when using the little one.
2008-08-31 9:38 AM
in reply to: #1640113

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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

first, thanks for the comments thus far.

however, i really need some explanations in easy to understand language Alot of what you just said Courage makes no sense to me.

if possible, i just need a short tutorial on when to use the small or big front ring and when to switch the rings on the back.

for example, if i need to use the big ring up front for the majority of flat riding....just tell me.  if i need the big ring up front for hills....just tell me.   

i just want to learn the absolute basics and go from there.   if what i am doing now is fine, then someone tell me so.  i just want it broken down really simple for me.

 



2008-08-31 9:51 AM
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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
Well, unfortunately it's all very personal and nobody can tell you what is going to be right for you.  Do you ever feel like when you are going downhill that you're spinning against nothing even though you're on the smallest ring in the back?  If so, shift to the bigger ring up front.  Do you feel like when you're riding on flat you'd like to have bit more resistance? Shift up in front.  I ride with a triple and spend about half my time in my largest and half in my middle.  Probably only 2% in my smallest and that's only for the steepest of hills on days when my legs are tired.  Additionally, you really don't want to cross chain which is what Fatdoggy mentions about being small/small and big/big.  If you need to be small/small then shift your front to the bigger ring.  If you need to be big/big then shift your front down to small.  There is no singular right or wrong for this, sorry.  But your legs are going to be very different than mine.  As a skier I tend to have pretty strong quads and can bust out a higher gear than a lot of my riding buddies on hills but it's not wrong that they aren't in that gear. 
2008-08-31 9:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

You don't "need" to use either ring for general cycling. Find a comfortable cadence, then find a gear that you can spin at that comfortable cadence at the appropriate heart rate for the training you're doing. Most people on here can find that gear combination for general training without leaving the small chainring.

What Courage is talking about is intervals- speedwork if you will- and should not be attempted by a rank beginner. Even when it is used by more experienced cyclists, many on here can do so from the small chain ring.

It's cadence and effort folks, the gear you're in is mostly irrelevant  and primarily a function of those two.

2008-08-31 9:54 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Im with you.

I'm lost. What is spinning out?

 I DO know my gears, but the terminology you guys are using makes us newbies lost.

I tend to stay in the big ring and smallest ring on downhills and flats, then move to the middle ring on the front and adjust the back for other stuff.

 but like she said. I need gear shifting for dummies LOL

2008-08-31 9:54 AM
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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
I disagree with The Bear here.  I can't maintain one gear here in my area for one cadence.  Just can't, too many hills.  So while Courage may be doing intervals sometimes terrain dictates built in intervals and gear changes will go with that.  He is right about finding the cadence and going with that but that's not always going to mean no gear changes. 
2008-08-31 10:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

COSkiGirl - 2008-08-31 9:54 AM I disagree with The Bear here.  I can't maintain one gear here in my area for one cadence.  Just can't, too many hills.  So while Courage may be doing intervals sometimes terrain dictates built in intervals and gear changes will go with that.  He is right about finding the cadence and going with that but that's not always going to mean no gear changes. 

Never said "no gear changes," go back iand read my last post. Particularly:

It's cadence and effort folks, the gear you're in is mostly irrelevant  and primarily a function of those two.

 



2008-08-31 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
Spinning out is when your legs are going as fast as you can spin the pedals and you can't keep up.  Remember as a kid when going down hill you coasted because pedaling did nothing?  Gears are for your "comfort & speed",  Are you comfortable with the small ring, spinning well (pedaling 80-90rpm)?  Go to the big ring and see what happens,  Are you comfortable spinning (pedaling 80-90rpm) still?  If not, don't worry be happy,  get back into the small ring.
2008-08-31 10:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

I have a triple, and my first year doing triathlon, almost exclusively used the middle ring on the front.  Only when there was a brutal uphill would I use the small ring, and only when there was a steep downhill did I used the big ring.  I always tried my best to keep my cadence around 90-95.

My legs got stronger over the past year, and now to keep my cadence in that range, it is necessary for me to use the big ring much more.  So no, don't worry about staying in the same ring all the time.  As you spend more time in the saddle, you will get stronger, and have more opportunity to use the big ring.

2008-08-31 10:17 AM
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Lafayette, CO
Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Sorry Bear I mis-understood as I read "a gear" as singular.

Latrina, by spinning out we mean your legs are spinning so fast with no resistance rather than using the revolutions of the pedals to give your bike more power, does that make more sense?  

2008-08-31 10:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

thus far in my training, the only "issue" i ever have is i do spin out occasionally going fast downhills.

saying that, i should shift from small to big up front and smallest in back instead of small up front and smallest on back? does that sound about right?   will that give me more resistance?

and i should never be small up front and back or big up front and biggest in back?

so besides the spinning out i get downhill, i really don't have alot of spinning or cadence issues in my early stages of training.  so should i basically stick to what i have been doing, other that the change i mentioned above about my spinning out issue?

2008-08-31 10:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
xmann1102 - 2008-08-31 10:27 AM

  so should i basically stick to what i have been doing, other that the change i mentioned above about my spinning out issue?



It is always a good idea to become proficient with one's equipment. I would personally go for some nice, short, hilly rides and practice shifting both up front and in back.

Biking is a lot easier when your power output is consistent. Your HR doesn't spike as much, and, over a long ride, you are going to feel better if you are constantly shifting into the "right" gear for your fitness level, wind conditions, and uphill/downhill grade. Those short, high HR spikes take a LOT out of you.


2008-08-31 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
This may be a basic question, but do you have cadence on your computer? (This means you have a sensor on your crank that measures every time you spin your legs.) Learning cadence was the biggest thing I did to improve my cycling.

I have a really basic computer (Cateye Astrale 8), the one function I use religiously is the cadence. It displays two numbers at a time. I set it so the big number is the cadence and the small number is MPH.

Everyone has their own cadence range, but if you start shooting for 92-95 RPMs, that will help you learn gearing.

'Spinning out' is spinning too fast. Even a change from 95 to 105 RPMs will bring on a burn in your legs quickly.

Likewise, a decrease from 95 to 82 RPMs will bring on a burn, called 'Mashing.'

Keep the RPMs in the right range, and that will dictate when you go into the big ring. You'll see overlap between your gear range in the big ring and small ring, so if and you're running out of gears in the small ring, you can switch to the big ring and your lowest gear choices in the big ring will match the higher choices in the small ring, allowing you to stay in the big ring for a while and using the higher gears where you may have been spinning out in the past.

In terms of 'gear crossing'... if you have the chain on the small ring and on the smallest cassette gear (or vice versa with big/big), the chain is not in a straight line. Aside from the resistance you'll feel when riding, it can break the chain or wear down the gear teeth prematurely.
2008-08-31 11:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

yes i do have a computer i use on my bike and yes i try to keep a cadence of 85-90.

 

2008-08-31 12:21 PM
in reply to: #1640283

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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Here's an easy way to learn how to use your gears.

Go for a ride on some rolling hills. Your goal is to keep your cadence unchanged as you ride up and down the hills. 

Think of your gears this way.  The small ring at the front is for your low gears.  The big ring at the front is your high gears.  Lower gears at the same cadence will move the bike slower than higher gears at the same cadence, but YOUR effort to pedal will be less with the lower gears (ie. you don't have to apply as much force to the pedal to move it, or think of it as less resistance for you to push the pedals).   On the back, as you've learned already the big cog is the easiest (ie. lowest) gear and the smallest cog is the hardest (or highest, or fastest) gear.

Now go to the hilly road and ride... you want to keep the cadence and effort the same on up and down hills.   Let's say you are riding along on a flat area and you come to a hill.... you are in the small ring on the front and the middle at the back.... when your cadence starts to slow (remember we want the effort to stay the same) you will shift to an easier (lower) gear, so you'll shift to a bigger cog on the back (I like to do this when my cadence drops to about 85) keep pedalling and every time your cadence slows drop down a gear.. if the hill is big or steep you may run out of gears an end up in your lowest gear ..... keep pedalling, when you get to the top of the hill shift up to the middle cog at the back and as you go over the hill and start down the downhill shift your front ring to the big ring... keep pedalling !!... if it's a big downhill you can shift the back to the smaller cogs (higher gears)... if your cadence falls below 85 you want to shift to lower gears again, which may mean shifting back to the small ring on the front, or you may be able to cruise along on the flats in the big ring for a while.  Always shift the back into the middle cogs before you change rings at the front (ie. don't have the chain on the smallest cog at the back and try to shift from the big ring to the small ring at the front.. this is the chain crossover other's talked about and can make you chain come off as you shift).

After a few rides you'll get more comfortable with shifting gears and you'll learn to use all of your gears.

Hope this helps.



Edited by cathyd 2008-08-31 12:25 PM
2008-08-31 1:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
xmann1102 - 2008-08-31 10:47 AM

yes i do have a computer i use on my bike and yes i try to keep a cadence of 85-90.

 

What's your rear gearing when you are spinning in this range of cadence?  Assuming you're on a flat road with no wind.

2008-08-31 1:43 PM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
xmann1102 - 2008-08-31 5:47 PM

yes i do have a computer i use on my bike and yes i try to keep a cadence of 85-90.

 

So, if your using the small chainring and the smallest cog and your cadence is outside of your comfort zone (>90rpm) you need to shift to the big ring.



2008-08-31 4:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

thanks guys for the explanations.

I need to get a bike computer. I'm somewhere near 75-78 rpm. Not to hijack the thread, but in order to get faster, continue riding and increase my mileage weekly right? (I read that here)

 

2008-09-01 8:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?

Something else you might want to consider is the wear and tear of your chain and cassette if you don't use your front gears. Let me see if I can write this down easily:

Basically, the idea is to keep your chain in as straight a line as possible. So, you'd use your small front ring with the 6-7 leftmost rings on the back. Likewise, you'd want to use your big front ring with the rightmost 6-7 rings on the back (yes, there's some overlap).

If your chain is often diagonal, it'll wear down rapidly, leading to shifting performance issues. Worse, it'll wear down your cassette quickly as well. Replacing this can be a relatively expensive exercise.

Just my €0.02

2008-09-01 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: Have i not been changing gears correctly?
Wow, you asked biking 101 or earlier question, and the few responses gave you the advanced graduate level course.

For the 101 answer.

Find a straight away kinda flat. Put the rear in the middle, the front in the small. Stop. Start try to ride as fast as you can. (Note not to hard to start, but gee can't get really fast).

Now leave the rear alone, put front on Big. Stop. Start try to ride as fast as you can. (Note hard to start, but gee can I get really fast).

Small ring in front makes it easy to go or go slow but no top end speed. Big ring makes it hard to stop or go slow but lots of top end speed.

So when starting or going slow (up hill) use small front ring. When going fast or downhill use big ring.

Repeat the experiment with the back rings.

------- Dont cheat but here are the answers ----------

The opposite is true on the rear. The big ring makes it easy to start or going slow.
The small is for going fast.

So before you come to a stop but the front in small and the back in big.

If you want to go as fast as possible and can hold a good cadence, big in front, small in back.

Most important RIDE RIDE RIDE, and play around with the gears.

Gears 102

Don't use big and big or Small and Small, this is called cross chaining and will wear out a chain and gears. (probably should avoid small and 2nd smallest and Big and 2nd biggest but its not as bad).

Gears 103...

Assuming you have 9 gears in back and 2 in front. you really dont have an 18 speed as some of those ratios will be very close. (You might find at the same cadence you hold the same speed if for example you are small in front and 4th smallest in back, or big in front and 3 largest in back or some combination like that cause the ratio is nearly the same)

Ride ride ride, and play around with your gears to see how they work.

when my kids went to geared bikes I had them just leave the front alone and play with the back until they understand what is happening then I have them play with the front.

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