Building a base - how slow can you go

I think this is probably the case...if you can get across the pool in 10 - 12 strokes and done total imersion you probably have good technique. How often are you breathing? 

Also, you may be exactly right about your need to take slightly longer breaks between each 50, 100,  etc...  Your aerobic performance will not improve by training anaerobically so it is important you pay attention to your heart rate.

I typically breathe every third stroke to start and then move to every other stroke when I become winded, usually at the 50.   

The Total Immersion workshop was wonderful.  When I came in I couldn't break 16 strokes, even after reading the book and watching the DVD.  Swimming is most definitely easier now than before the workshop but getting winded after such a short time is discouraging. 

Your point is well made - I'm probably pushing too hard to get distance and pushing myself into anaerobic territory.  Next time I hit the pool I'll try mixing in some breaststroke as well as decreasing distance and taking longer breaks between sets.

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.  It seems like it's going to largely be a matter of keeping myself honest about my level of exertion and making sure I don't push into anaerobic zones - even if I do want to go just a little bit farther.  I'll get to work practicing my breaststroke.  It's been awhile but that might be a great way to slow things down a bit!

Jason

Sorry to steal, Damn.... 10-12 strokes... that's obsurd.

I've counted my strokes sometimes on my normal pace and i swim about 21strokes/25y length. Granted this is with a minimal push off wall as opposed to big flip turn push. I think if i tried to really glide i would be down to 18 maybe. Is this so bad? I keep a pace of about 1:40/100y consistently for any distance swimming. I breath every 3rd once i get in this rhythm. I don't really feel winded by taking all the strokes... Just curious if anyone else takes a lot of strokes....

Before I picked up the TI book/DVD I'd usually fall somewhere around 23 strokes per length (25yd).  After trying the TI drills I dropped to around 16 and questioned whether the weekend workshop they put on would be useful.  I ended up doing it and loved every minute of it.  They did an underwater video of us before the workshop and then another when it was done - what a difference.  For me, seeing was believing.  I really thought I was streamlined... I was wrong. 

One thing the coach pointed out is that it's not all about strokes per length.  It's a measure of efficiency but only at a given speed.  We had a couple people that were doing less than 10 spl but they were really slow.  At 12 I can do about 1:40/100yd.  Any fewer than that and I'll be slowing down quite a bit.  As turnover speed increases spl will go up but so will speed.

It's also worth pointing out that efficiency is a much better way of increasing speed than just looking for faster turnover.  Resistance increases in relation to velocity in the water.  Form drag, the resistance caused by moving your body underwater, increases as the square of the velocity.  Wave drag, the resistance caused by all that chop at the surface that we generate, increases as the cube of the velocity.  All this - proof that I read too much and that I'm a geek

When I did TI class they didn't focus much on breathing and I really struggled with it and always felt winded  which sounds like you.

Turns out I wasn't exhaling fully so when I would breath I wouldn't get full breath of fresh air. Are you exhaling as soon as your face gets in the water?

I have somewhat of a different definition for basebuilding.  I see basebuilding as working through several (many?) cycles (periodization) of planned training to increase your training/aerobic capacity.  (Ricks ride/run/swim lots)  In the two ongoing threads on this topics, the discussion has focused on the long slow distance aspect of the training.  Yes, that is an important aspect but not the only aspect and plays the least improtant role in swimming.  In all three areas, training needs to vary for intensity/load.  If you look at Joel Friel's Triathlete's Bible, he discusses the need for including intensity in training, especially for people without 25 to 30 hours per week to train.  This doesn't mean doing intensity to the point of injury but changing your tempo or adding hills, etc.

For swimming, I think that if you can't swim more than 150 yards without getting out of breath you have  technique problems.  You're log's aren't extensive but from looking at them, I don't think you've been swimming enough to have good technique unless you were a high school/college swimmer.   I agree you probably need a coach to detail the specific problems.  While stroke rate is a good way to measure efficiency in needs to be partnered with time and shouldn't be an end all for measuring performance.  Doing 1000 yard time trails is a much better measurement, when you can get to that level.  I breath every other stroke (so do a lot of pros) and mostly work intervals.  As Chrissie Wellington's coach said, "it's home many correct strokes you take in training, not how many stokes"

Ernie

Right Ernie.

Which is why I always throw the caveat in for the swim of "swim lots with correct technique."

Building swimming endurance is effectively done with shorter intervals on short rest breaks.  The key is that when your form starts to go, take a break and get it back.  Almost all tri swimmers focus on good solid sets, usually no more than 3 - 500 yards per interval.  Every now and then you throw in a 1k TT or a confidence builder of the distance you are racing, but to get in the pool and swim 2k yards straight every other swim is not the most effective use of your pool time.

Actually I was exhaling very early, to the point that I was losing buoyancy.  I've since changed to a method which includes a steady but slow exhale while face-down followed by a forceful exhale right before I break the surface to empty my lungs.  I'm less certain I'm getting as much air as I need to refill my lungs again which is definitely something to work on.

Ernie - I've been swimming quite a bit more than my logs show.  I was swimming very regularly for quite awhile before I started thinking about triathlon.  When I decided to do triathlon I cut back quite a bit since my bike skills and my running skills were, well, nonexistent.  That said, I think you're right on.  I've been taking quite a few strokes in training but only the first bunch were decent - then they went downhill in the quest for distance.  I'll stop that now  

Thanks Rick, that's some good advice.  I've been under the apparently mistaken impression that all of the experienced tri folk were out there swimming an hour at a time, virtually nonstop.  Knowing that interval work is the way to go gives me a direction and lets me build up to longer intervals while not worrying too much about my short interval distance now.  I'm coming to realize that I haven't been working out all that efficiently for some time...

Thanks everyone for your responses.  This is a great community and I greatly appreciate the feedback!

Jason