Find the right pace for Swim Training

Forum guidelines BT super discount
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Find the right pace for Swim Training Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
2008-11-01 3:42 PM

User image

Member
11

Loughborough
Subject: Find the right pace for Swim Training

I've been typically pushing out a bunch of 50m reps in 50secs leaving every minute, or 100m reps in 1:42/1:45  leaving every 2 minutes.   The effort for these has been tempo.

Today,  I thought I would push myself.   I managed 50m in 39secs and 100m in 1:31secs.   This was at around 90-95% effort, starting from the wall, without flip turns, in a 25m pool.  

The difference between my "steady state" pace and this faster pace seems significant.  I obviously want to translate some of this speed to my distance swimming and I'm wondering if my pacing has not been challenging enough in my regular training.

What is the right pace for training based on your faster times?  

 

 

2008-11-01 4:41 PM
in reply to: #1780360

Extreme Veteran
454
1001001001002525
OKC
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training
Similar to bike/run training zones, a lot of people use "base intervals" or "t-pace" for swimming.

People define it differently, but it's usually something similar to a 1000 yd/m time trial. Then the workouts are defined around that interval (i.e. 4 x 100 on base, etc...).

Check out US Master's swimming for some ideas.

http://www.usms.org/training/workouts.htm
2008-11-01 6:53 PM
in reply to: #1780360

User image

Lethbridge, Alberta
Bronze member
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training
mermerskins - 2008-11-01 2:42 PM

...

What is the right pace for training based on your faster times?


First, like the previous post says, I don't think you should base your training on your faster times. The fast efforts depend in part on some factors that don't translate well to longer aerobic swimming. However that doesn't mean you shouldn't push sometimes.

That gets to my second point. You shouldn't be doing all your training at any one pace. Just like in running or biking, there are different benefits to different paces. Mix in some shorter faster sets now and then.

Our masters coach also sometimes uses sets where we vary our pace during the set too. For example, try your tempo 100m reps but do the third 25m length of each 100 at your 95% effort pace. You may find that you need a slightly longer interval to recover though, as you add more intensity. Other variations include descending sets, like 3x100 with each 100 coming in a little quicker, so the times are 'descending', and possibly repeating that progression multiple times. Another option are build sets where you start easier but gradually increase your pace throughout each 100, or 50, or 200, etc.

Disclaimer: I'm not one of the fish. I've been working on it and reading lots but take all this with a grain of salt.


Edited by Micawber 2008-11-01 6:54 PM
2008-11-01 7:23 PM
in reply to: #1780360

User image

Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training
^^^^^^ May not be a fish but he knows what he is talking about
2008-11-01 10:02 PM
in reply to: #1780360

User image

Expert
2547
200050025
The Woodlands, TX
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training
Try this...

Do a set of 100's. start with 2 on 2:10, then 2 @2:05, 2:00, 1:55, 1:50, 1:45, etc. See how many you can make before you miss the interval. Whatever the fastest interval you make is, try that interval for your next workout.

So, if you are able to make the first 100 on 1:45 after swimming 10 before it, then your next workout try and swim 5X100 @ 1:45. Don't be afraid to miss an interval. I swam age-group, high school, and college and workouts intended for you to miss the interval were a part of every training program.

good luck

tj
2008-11-01 11:38 PM
in reply to: #1780360

User image

Extreme Veteran
680
500100252525
Boulder, CO
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training

Mermerskin,

Something to try... compare your short interval speed to what you can hold for 1500.  I suggest because what feels 'steady' (for me) at the 50 to 100 distance may not be steady once I extend to a longer distance.  Given your 50/100 speed, you will likely find that your true steady pace is about what you can hold for 2000 continuous with three-stroke breathing (in fact, you may find that is your max aerobic speed).

If you look in Joe's book, the Triathlete's Training Bible then you can also find a guideline for steady (Zn 2) based on your best average 1000 TT pace.  If I had to guess steady might be 1:55 per 100 pace for your longer endurance intervals.

The shortest distance that I would base training times on is 1000 -- even then, as you improve, you'll find that you need to go longer for a true aerobic test.

Hope this helps,

 g

2008-11-01 11:44 PM
in reply to: #1781198

User image

Expert
987
500100100100100252525
Durham, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training

You keep mentioning a 3-stroke breathing ... is this an advantage over 2-stroke or 4-stroke?

If so, how do you train for it or switch to it?

I've been experimenting but it seem that to do any distance swimming I have to use a 2-stroke.  For shorted distances, like the 300m and 250m short pool swim in my 2 sprints, I swam the first 50m at 4-stroke (had a fast pace), then the next 50m at a 3-stroke (getting a little winded), and finished up the rest of the distance with a 2-stroke.

I tried using a 3-stroke the whole time, but feel that I get a little too winded and my arms tire quicker.... but if I start at with 2-stroke or switch to 2-stroke after 50-100m then I feel like I could swim forever ... (well, I've only gone 1000m so far, just this Friday, but only stopped because the pool was closing .... probably could have gone another 400 or 500 meters ...)

 

2008-11-02 12:44 AM
in reply to: #1781202

User image

Extreme Veteran
680
500100252525
Boulder, CO
Subject: RE: Find the right pace for Swim Training
You keep mentioning a 3-stroke breathing ... is this an advantage over 2-stroke or 4-stroke?

If so, how do you train for it or switch to it?

 Check this article -- slide down a little on the page, I open with a bit on IM swimming.  Your experience is typical.  There are HUGE gains that will come to you if you stick with it.  Most people make the adjustment in 8-12 weeks.  It is the single greatest thing that you can do for your swim economy.

 http://www.byrn.org/gtips/bl0202.htm

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Find the right pace for Swim Training Rss Feed