HUGE difference in FTP outdoors vs indoors

I wanted to see what difference there would be  -  I expected a drop on the trainer, but I was thinking like 10 watts, not 25!!!

Why are you posting when you should be analyzing my beautiful power test data from last night?!?! LOL!!

 And TriToy, I have never done an outdoor power test so I don't know why your numbers are so far off, but I am more than impressed that you had the mental fortitude to do 2 power tests in one week. I can barely get myself to do 2 a YEAR!

I was on a kurt kinetic trainer in a Ali's class at Landry's  - the fan situation did kind of suck - sweat dripping in amazing ways....

I did it in class vs alone thinking it would help with motivation, but wonder if the fact that I did it at night after a long day at work affected it....

the two tests were 3 days apart, so doubt that fitness difference is the issue....

Kurt Kinetic trainer

could the fact that I did it at night after long day at work be it? 

it was a puke worthy test - the second 20 minutes (it was a 2x20' with 2' rest take the whole 42' and use normalized power) I actually puked in my towel...

All those things will have an impact.  In my experience, cooling (or lack thereof) has a major impact on higher intensity work on the trainer vs. outdoors (where you almost always have pretty good cooling just by moving).

oh it is worse, this morning, 12 hours after that performance I did a 5k run test for vdot - my worst stand alone 5k ever.  

only one way to go - up!

While the 2x20min test is a great way to estimate FTP I think it is quite challenging and tough to do on the trainer. In that case I prefer to use a 5min TT and a 20 min TT and use the critical power model to estimate FTP. IM experience it is easier for athletes to manage, it can be done more often and the FTP estimate is very accurate. Anyway, if you feel you had a good test the 1st time around I would use that to calculate power training zones, adjust as need it and re-test in 5-6 weeks...

This should not be surprising, less than 12 hours recovery between two very challenging efforts and three very hard workouts in 3-4 days.

Did your plan have you do these three workouts so close together?

Shane

Ummmmmm ....... last time I checked, you are supposed to do no hard efforts for 2 or 3 days before any sort of TT test.

Kind of defeats the purpose of using it as a gauge of fitness levels when you go into them wiped ..... you are guaranteeing that you will have a bad performance.

Could be you did the tests too close together Cat. ;-)

I would space them out by at least a week.

the FTT and 5k for vdot were scheduled one day apart - but supposedly at least 24 hours - I definitely learned from this that next round of testing NOT to do them so close, and for the winter just stick to the trainer (sigh).  At least in the spring I will be pleased to see my numbers change!!!

I figured 3 days between the charlie baker TT course and the trainer  TT would be enough - but of course I swam sunday.....lifted monday....

point taken....

the numbers geek in me wanted to see what the difference between outdoors and indoors is.....I will have to put her on hold

thanks everyone.

Your VDOT is supposed to be based on a race.  It is my experience (and the experience of many reknowned running coaches) that no matter how hard you go on a training run or TT that it will not be the same as a race situation.

So ........ if you are calculating VDOT, then are you going to throw the silly HRM out the window??  Because the entire reason to use a VDOT number is to determine pace zones ....... which don't care about HR values.

garmin has both and I usually ignore my HR anyway.....

My next vdot will be during a thanksgiving 5k....this was a baseline for pace zones for training....

no local 5ks this week but yeah I woke up and thought about postponing...should have followed that instinct!

While that would be ideally many times that is not realistic for some (many) athletes due to busy schedules, budget, family time, etc. In triathlon some of us coaches have come to realize we can borrow the work done by experience coaches/physiologists (like the VDOT tables) and apply it very well for Tri training, testing and racing. Also some of us have come together and discuss & exchange ideas 'behind the scenes' to learn ways to better obtain and use data like VDOT, FTP, etc to enhance our athletes training.

not really. watts are watts are watts. FTP is in theory the power you can generate all out for around 60 min, whether you are going up or on a flat you can only push so much cuz that's the indication of how metabolic fit your muscles are. Riding on a hillier terrain might produce a higher difference between your avg watts (including coasting) and you normilzied power which in theory is the actual meatobolic cost of the ride (how hard it felt for your body) but if you paced correclty that difference will be lower. If you can generate 200 watts at FTP you should be able to produce that power going all out for around 60 min whether going up slighty, rolling terrain or riding a flat road.

I agree that racing is not always the practical or available thing to do Jorge.  But it IS the best measure of your performance and ability, not a TT.

There are many people who train great and put up impressive workouts but can't put out on race day.  If the purpose of training is to get better at racing, then there is some disconnect somewhere.  If their purpose in training is to simply get more well rounded and in shape, then that part doesn't matter as much.

The athletes out there who employ coaches are usually looking to improve for racing and have some guidance.  And while compromises will always have to be made, there is still no better baseline than race data (IMO).