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2008-11-13 1:28 PM

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Subject: The Biggest Loser
I have always had a questiopn that bothers me.  Why do they do some much weight training instead of endurance running.  Lose weight with out building as much muscle mass.


2008-11-13 1:31 PM
in reply to: #1806796

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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
not sure.  I dont think endurance training is good for weight loss.  slow state cardio so the body burns fat instead of carbs.  as soon as you move above zone 2, you're burning carbs, not fat.  weight lifting probably provide some slow state cardio???? 
2008-11-13 1:33 PM
in reply to: #1806796

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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
My guess is that strength training will increase muscle mass, which should increase the basal metabolic rate because muscle cells use more energy than fat cells.  Not sure exactly though.
2008-11-13 1:35 PM
in reply to: #1806796

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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

They probably do a ton of it (endurance training), likely most of their training is aerobic.  It just makes for some really boring TV.  Who wants to watch people walk/jog for 2 hours? Watching out of shape people do sprints and throw weights around is much more entertaining.



Edited by mbmoran2 2008-11-13 1:37 PM
2008-11-13 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
mbmoran2 - 2008-11-13 1:35 PM

They probably do a ton of it (endurance training), likely most of their training is aerobic.  It just makes for some really boring TV.  Who wants to watch people walk/jog for 2 hours? Watching out of shape people do sprints and throw weights around is much more entertaining.

I guess NBC is not PBS -- had a show and showed the people bodies before andd after they ran  marathon. Almost all of them were overweight and had never ran before.  IT was only interesting to people like me who care about the difference of slow twitch and fast twitch muscles.

2008-11-13 1:53 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

Because weight circuit training combined with cardio is one of the fastest ways to weight loss.

And since the show is all about losing as much as possible as fast as possible in the 10 - 14 day stretch (it is never actually a week) and they are already pushing themselves into dehydration on scale days, they need to burn as much as they can as fast as they can.

And that ain't through endurance sports.



2008-11-13 2:22 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

What you don't see on the show, is that they have "homework" that they have to do without their traininer. Usually that is X amount of cardio per day. As in HOURS of cardio everyday. I once heard a reference to 3 hours worth of "homework" on the show.

So they are, but they can do that without the trainers and the cameras there.... because it is boring for TV.

2008-11-13 2:35 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
yea..basically what everyone else said.
Muscle burns more cals than fat does.
Plus when weight training your body is burning for hours and hours and hours after your done rather than the short window aerobic activity does.
So for their purpose,wieght training combined with endurance training gives them the most "bang for their buck"
2008-11-13 2:38 PM
in reply to: #1806796

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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

They used to show a lot more of the cardio stuff; walking up the hills, jogging around the ranch, etc. They spend more time now doing the dramatic interpersonal stuff, not to mention all the "commercials" within the show for jell-o, ziploc, subway, etc. They really tend to only show the "last chance" workouts much, and I think that is for the extra pain and whining (for fun, count how many times they say "last chance" during that segment).

PS: Vicky must go Cool

2008-11-13 2:38 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

cusetri - 2008-11-13 11:31 AM not sure.  I dont think endurance training is good for weight loss.  slow state cardio so the body burns fat instead of carbs.  as soon as you move above zone 2, you're burning carbs, not fat.  weight lifting probably provide some slow state cardio???? 

 That's a bit of a myth.  Yes, there is a fat burning "zone" but burning fat vs carbs makes very little difference as long as you burn the same number of Calories without changing the amount you consume.  If you have to chug a sportsdrink/gel/powerbar in order to run faster, then yes, slower is more effective.  Strength training builds muscle, which raises your basal metabolic rate as muscle consumes energy, even when at rest.  Yes, these people are working out about 4.5 hours a day and most of it is very, very boring work.  Strength training, plyometrics, balance drills and yoga provide variety for both the viewer and the participants.

2008-11-13 2:49 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

Artemis - 2008-11-13 11:33 AM My guess is that strength training will increase muscle mass, which should increase the basal metabolic rate because muscle cells use more energy than fat cells.  Not sure exactly though.

I think you're right on with this.  No weight loss plan is complete without some weight training, IMHO.



2008-11-13 3:20 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
Daremo - 2008-11-13 1:53 PM

Because weight circuit training combined with cardio is one of the fastest ways to weight loss.

And since the show is all about losing as much as possible as fast as possible in the 10 - 14 day stretch (it is never actually a week) and they are already pushing themselves into dehydration on scale days, they need to burn as much as they can as fast as they can.

And that ain't through endurance sports.



100% correct.
2008-11-13 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
SuzanneS - 2008-11-13 2:22 PM

What you don't see on the show, is that they have "homework" that they have to do without their traininer. Usually that is X amount of cardio per day. As in HOURS of cardio everyday. I once heard a reference to 3 hours worth of "homework" on the show.

So they are, but they can do that without the trainers and the cameras there.... because it is boring for TV.



What she said!

They do have homework where they do cardio. That we do not see.

2008-11-13 5:44 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
Eh. They are on the damn treadmills, spin bikes, and ellipticals every friggin' episode. Sure, a lot of the high-value footage on those machines is of Bob or Jillian pushing them into what looks like anaerobic efforts...that's just editorial selection of the most dramatic footage. But think of all the reaction shots where you see other team members on the treadmill in the background running at an aerobic pace (or look for that the next couple times you watch)...they're part of the show every week.
2008-11-13 5:46 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
mbmoran2 - 2008-11-13 1:35 PM

They probably do a ton of it (endurance training), likely most of their training is aerobic.  It just makes for some really boring TV.  Who wants to watch people walk/jog for 2 hours? Watching out of shape people do sprints and throw weights around is much more entertaining.



That's what i always thought as well. They do aerobic stuff but only show the in gym stuff as it's more entertaining.
2008-11-13 6:19 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
daijoubu - 2008-11-13 2:38 PM

cusetri - 2008-11-13 11:31 AM not sure.  I dont think endurance training is good for weight loss.  slow state cardio so the body burns fat instead of carbs.  as soon as you move above zone 2, you're burning carbs, not fat.  weight lifting probably provide some slow state cardio???? 

 That's a bit of a myth.  Yes, there is a fat burning "zone" but burning fat vs carbs makes very little difference as long as you burn the same number of Calories without changing the amount you consume.  If you have to chug a sportsdrink/gel/powerbar in order to run faster, then yes, slower is more effective.  Strength training builds muscle, which raises your basal metabolic rate as muscle consumes energy, even when at rest.  Yes, these people are working out about 4.5 hours a day and most of it is very, very boring work.  Strength training, plyometrics, balance drills and yoga provide variety for both the viewer and the participants.

 

a Myth?  Sorry, your body 100%, without a doubt, burns fat for energy in lower zones.

 whether or not that results in more weight loss was not my point.  the question was why do they not do enurance training on the biggest loser.  I said, I dont know, but it may have to do with the FACT that the human body burns fat for energy at lower zones.  this is a fact. proven with science.

 whether or not the biggest loser uses this as a strategy, well you would have to ask them. 



Edited by cusetri 2008-11-13 6:22 PM


2008-11-13 6:36 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
Muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does. You need to put on muscle to burn more calories at rest to maintain that muscle. this is a competition to teach people to keep the weight off for the rest of their lives.

They're trying to burn as many calories as possible... after the first week when everyone loses all that water weight, the second week they barely lose anything.... so, by lifting weights, they're teaching their body to burn more calories even when they're not working out.. the whole, need to lose 3500 calories to lose a pound of weight, by lifting, they're able to lose more while recovering than you do with just endurance training. Guys who just lift weights lose as many calories as a moderate endurance athlete. just my thought,though.

I also agree that if they just did endurance training, it wouldn't be much of a story people would want to watch on TV.

Edited by trikyle7 2008-11-13 6:39 PM
2008-11-13 8:52 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
This week in the backgroudn people were going so slow.. Maybe 30 rpm on the bike and it doesn't seem like their doing anything.  I Eat far tons less than they do and don't lose anything.
2008-11-13 9:00 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
trikyle7 - 2008-11-13 6:36 PM

Muscle burns more calories at rest than fat does. You need to put on muscle to burn more calories at rest to maintain that muscle. this is a competition to teach people to keep the weight off for the rest of their lives.

They're trying to burn as many calories as possible... after the first week when everyone loses all that water weight, the second week they barely lose anything.... so, by lifting weights, they're teaching their body to burn more calories even when they're not working out.. the whole, need to lose 3500 calories to lose a pound of weight, by lifting, they're able to lose more while recovering than you do with just endurance training. Guys who just lift weights lose as many calories as a moderate endurance athlete. just my thought,though.

I also agree that if they just did endurance training, it wouldn't be much of a story people would want to watch on TV.


This is very close to being the correct answer. Lifting weights causes more muscle damage than endurance training. Having to repair the muscle tissue takes calories, so the caloric expenditure post-exercise is higher after liftings weights.

The ideal fat loss program combines all forms of exercise: lifting weights, anaerobic/interval training, and aerobic/steady state work. It's also a very good idea to keep switching exercise so your body doesn't adapt. Once the body adapts to a particular training program, it becomes efficient and there's less muscle damage. This is why people who do only one type of endurance exercise, e.g., running, eventually reach a plateau.
2008-11-13 9:11 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
cusetri - 2008-11-13 6:19 PM

daijoubu - 2008-11-13 2:38 PM

cusetri - 2008-11-13 11:31 AM not sure.  I dont think endurance training is good for weight loss.  slow state cardio so the body burns fat instead of carbs.  as soon as you move above zone 2, you're burning carbs, not fat.  weight lifting probably provide some slow state cardio???? 

 That's a bit of a myth.  Yes, there is a fat burning "zone" but burning fat vs carbs makes very little difference as long as you burn the same number of Calories without changing the amount you consume.  If you have to chug a sportsdrink/gel/powerbar in order to run faster, then yes, slower is more effective.  Strength training builds muscle, which raises your basal metabolic rate as muscle consumes energy, even when at rest.  Yes, these people are working out about 4.5 hours a day and most of it is very, very boring work.  Strength training, plyometrics, balance drills and yoga provide variety for both the viewer and the participants.

 

a Myth?  Sorry, your body 100%, without a doubt, burns fat for energy in lower zones.

 whether or not that results in more weight loss was not my point.  the question was why do they not do enurance training on the biggest loser.  I said, I dont know, but it may have to do with the FACT that the human body burns fat for energy at lower zones.  this is a fact. proven with science.

 whether or not the biggest loser uses this as a strategy, well you would have to ask them. 



The body burns a higher % of fat at lower zones, as the body works harder the % of Fat burning decreases and more carbs are being used. You're still burning 100 calories a mile as an example at any speed but the % coming from fat or carbs changes with intensity. You still use fat as fuel out of zone 2.
2008-11-13 11:55 PM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
What running2far said makes alot of sense.

I sure have lost more weight doing tri training (40 pounds) than doing any kind of lifting/lite running (10 miles a week) and 8 hours of racquet ball a week (zero pounds).

I read somewhere (famouse last words) that you need to be able to exercize long enough for the fat burning to kick in. So initially you burn mostly carbs and then as you get more fit you exercize longer and end up burning more fat. Not sure of the source, but I was reading about that stuff back when I was heavier.

There is a difference between fat burned during the workout and overall change in motabolism due to the workout over the next 24 hours. This may be where some of the confusion comes from.

You can do a brief, intense workout and get a motabolism shift, but that is not the same as biking 70 miles....

My muscles are too busy adapting to run/bike/swim to do any lifting at the moment. They just say no. That might change if I were in better shape, but I don't know where in my day I would put it. I have a hard enough time finding 10-15 hours to workout per week.



Edited by Baowolf 2008-11-13 11:56 PM


2008-11-14 12:56 AM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
cusetri - 2008-11-13 4:19 PM
daijoubu - 2008-11-13 2:38 PM

cusetri - 2008-11-13 11:31 AM not sure.  I dont think endurance training is good for weight loss.  slow state cardio so the body burns fat instead of carbs.  as soon as you move above zone 2, you're burning carbs, not fat.  weight lifting probably provide some slow state cardio???? 

 That's a bit of a myth.  Yes, there is a fat burning "zone" but burning fat vs carbs makes very little difference as long as you burn the same number of Calories without changing the amount you consume.  If you have to chug a sportsdrink/gel/powerbar in order to run faster, then yes, slower is more effective.  Strength training builds muscle, which raises your basal metabolic rate as muscle consumes energy, even when at rest.  Yes, these people are working out about 4.5 hours a day and most of it is very, very boring work.  Strength training, plyometrics, balance drills and yoga provide variety for both the viewer and the participants.

 

a Myth?  Sorry, your body 100%, without a doubt, burns fat for energy in lower zones.

 whether or not that results in more weight loss was not my point.  the question was why do they not do enurance training on the biggest loser.  I said, I dont know, but it may have to do with the FACT that the human body burns fat for energy at lower zones.  this is a fact. proven with science.

 whether or not the biggest loser uses this as a strategy, well you would have to ask them. 

 I agree, the "fat burning zone" does exist.  I don't think it's useful but I didn't dispute it's existence although it's more of a continuum rather than a sudden shift at a specific speed. Move slowly and a greater percentage of energy comes from fatty acids in your blood stream (which come from fat being broken down either in your digestive system or your fat stores.)  As you speed up, more and more energy comes from the glycogen stored in your muscles and liver.

 The cardio work is not shown because it's boring to all but endurance athletes.  That's why Ironman is not televised live on ESPN.  It's boring.  Weight lifting, kick boxing, sprinting and trainers berating the contestants is exciting.  Cardio work, especially running is effective at burning Calories fast and they do do it.  They do not drink sports drinks or recovery drinks or take gels, clifbars, or shotblocks as they defeat the purpose of the cardio work.  Water only plus a Calorie restricted diet.  

2008-11-14 7:35 AM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser
y'know.. if I could work out 12 hrs a day, everyday .. i'd lose more weight too.. slow, fast, zone 1 or 2.. but work and family kinda gets in the way of 2 or 3 a day workout sessions .. but my goal is to lose 10 lbs by the start of race season '09 ..
2008-11-14 8:56 AM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

Here's an interesting study that indicates the fat burn zone may not be scientifically accurate:
 

http://www.cbass.com/FATBURN.HTM  

I'm sure others can find studies that say the exact opposite. One thing to be careful of is the difference between "percent" fat loss vs "actual" fat loss. For example, running a 6 minute mile for one hour burns 1126 calories for someone weighing 155 pounds (source ). Running a 9 minute mile burns 774 calories. I can't find the exact reference, but I believe the fat burning percent is relatively close; like 60% for the anaerobic, and 70% for aerobic; but for sake of argument let's make it more drastic; and go 60% vs. 80%. The 6 minute miler thus burns 675 fat calories; and the 9 minute miler burns 619 fat calories. If however, your choice is to go run hard for 30 minutes, or run a bit slower and go for 1 1/2 hours; now you are going to obviously burn up more fat on the longer run.

All that said, if you really watch BL closely; you find that eating properly and with the right portions is just as important (maybe more so) than the exercise. There's always people that are injured and can't do much working out, but still post big weight losses. That 600 fat calories from the example above can be gone in an instant with one bad meal or snack. 

2008-11-14 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: The Biggest Loser

Clarence Bass knows his stuff, but for me when I lowered my intensity of cardio it was then when I started to shed bodyfat. Most of the contestants on Biggest Loser cannot run,yet.  It is also hard to say what type of weightlifting they are doing,high or low reps.

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