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2008-12-22 6:12 AM

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Subject: kettlebells for triathlon training
Does anybody use kettlebells as a part of his/her training? 


2008-12-22 1:33 PM
in reply to: #1866852

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Master
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Lafayette, IN
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
I wish my gym had some.  I use medicine balls for some of my warm-up stuff and the handle on the kettlebell would be better.
2008-12-22 3:26 PM
in reply to: #1866852

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New Haven, CT
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
I do.  Dumbells can eaisily be subsituted for most KB exercises.
2008-12-23 3:55 AM
in reply to: #1868034

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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Thats a good idea.  Have you noticed any improvement as opposed to more traditional weight training?  pros? cons?
2008-12-23 10:39 AM
in reply to: #1866852

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Yes, I use them regularly. Although KBs can be pricey, there are some cheaper options. For instance, Perform Better has good prices and free shipping. Dumbbells are still cheaper, but I think it's worth spending the money and get one or two. You won't "outgrow" them because KBs traditionally are a test of strength-endurance.

Kenneth Jay, a KB trainer from Denmark, has developed a protocol using KBs to increase VO2max. It works. The short and simple version is to take a 16 kg (35 lbs.) KB and do snatches for 15 seconds with one arm, rest 15 seconds, do 15 seconds with the other arm, rest 15 seconds, and repeat until you feel toasted. You want to try to get 8 reps during each of the 15-second work intervals. If you can't get all 8, do what you can. This sounds easy but gets very hard after 2 minutes. If you can keep this up for 40 minutes you're doing pretty well. I can only go 20 minutes.
2008-12-23 10:46 AM
in reply to: #1866852

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Here is the official protocol from "The Dane of Pain" himself. As you can see, it involves testing. As I said, my version is a simplified version without any testing. I have seen noticeable improvements in endurance with this.

Invariably, someone will come on here and ask "Why don't you just go out and swim/bike/run?" Answer: Because you can't swim/bike/run for pick your reason: gym is closed, pool is close, too cold to run, too icy to run, short on time (like I said, you're first time out you'll want to stop at 20 minutes).

Training to increase Max Vo2 with a kettlebell.

I will share with you one of my best advanced protocols for improving VO2max and lactate buffering capacity using the kettlebell.

To improve the 10 min. SSST you need to tax the oxidative energy pathways as well as the glycolytic pathways. Basically that means that you should train to stimulate your VO2max and your lactate producing and buffering capacities.

The program below is derived from the latest research on improving 10-15 min. work bouts. Most research is done on running and bicycling for good reason but based on findings from these studies it is possible to specifically design optimal SSST programs using this data and the knowledge of VO2 kinetics during submaximal and maximal work.

I will not go into the deep theory behind this kind of training but rather just provide you with a protocol you can start doing immediately. Should you be interested in knowing in detail why and how it works I hope to see you at the RKC II where there is a possibility of discussing it further.

The first thing you have to do is to establish at what snatch cadence you come the closest to eliciting your VO2max. This is done by doing an incremental test that lasts no less than 6 minutes. Basically you just start out very slow and for each minute you increase the cadence. When you have get to the 6th minute you go all out snatching as many times as you can without stopping for at least one minute. The test might look like this but is subject to individual differences:

1st minute: 10 reps left arm
2nd minute: 12 reps right arm
3rd minute 15 reps left arm
4th minute: 17 reps right arm
5th minute: 18 reps left arm
6th minute: 26 reps right arm (all out effort)

The 6th minute reflects your VO2max cadence, hence that will be your interval training tempo. It is very important for the protocol that you continued snatching for the entire 6th minute. (make sure afterwards you balance out the numbers of snatches performed on each side so each side get a total equal amount of work).

In this example the VO2max cadence = 26reps

The interval work/rest time is determined to 36 sec. which is 60% of one min.

In those 36 sec. you need to keep your VO2max cadence = 26reps x 60% = approx. 16 reps.

So the setup is as follows:

VO2max/lactate tolerance and buffering:

Work/rest ratio: 1:1 (36 sec of work separated by 36 sec of rest.)

Number of intervals: at least 10 and the goal is to work up to 17+ sets before you test the SSST.

Number of reps per set: 16 (it is very important NOT to go faster or slower. DO NOT speed up to get more rest- it will ruin what you are trying to do.)

If your hands can take it do this at least twice per week. Only substitute with swings if it is really necessary. The program is based on the specific VO2 kinetics of the snatch not the swing.

The program is very taxing and one should always build up volume slowly.

Now go be an animal and try it!

/Kenneth Jay


2008-12-23 9:57 PM
in reply to: #1869373

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Master
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Rogersville, Alabama
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Nice post.  I just ordered some Kettlebells for my fitness center.  I'll have to try this one out.
2008-12-28 11:22 PM
in reply to: #1866852

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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

MikeTheBear: awesome posts!  I tried the technique in the first post with a dumbbell.  It pretty much kicked my tail after 5 minutes.  I will say that it takes quite a bit of grip strentgh to use a dumbbell.

I had to check out more about Kenneth Jay. To see him, Pavel Tsatsouline, and David Whitley perform such feats of strentgh is motivating!

2008-12-29 8:55 PM
in reply to: #1866852

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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Love the kettlebell!!! Google 101 Kettlebell Workout, its a free e-book that has some great simple workouts
2008-12-29 11:16 PM
in reply to: #1875172

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
TheSloth - 2008-12-28 11:22 PM

MikeTheBear: awesome posts!  I tried the technique in the first post with a dumbbell.  It pretty much kicked my tail after 5 minutes.  I will say that it takes quite a bit of grip strentgh to use a dumbbell.

I had to check out more about Kenneth Jay. To see him, Pavel Tsatsouline, and David Whitley perform such feats of strentgh is motivating!



Glad you liked it. Rumor has it that KJ has a book coming out detailing his VO2max program and some other programs to enhance endurance similar to the VO2max protocol outlined above.
2008-12-30 7:12 AM
in reply to: #1866852

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

I love my kettlebell. I suggest it to anyone that is interested.

M.T.B.: I'm going to try that workout. Although I think my KB might be too heavy for me, I don't even know if I can do 6 minutes!



2008-12-30 10:17 AM
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Why are kettle bells so expensive! other than that I love them
2008-12-30 11:30 AM
in reply to: #1877696

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
colby995 - 2008-12-30 10:17 AM

Why are kettle bells so expensive! other than that I love them


Because in the past, Dragon Door had essentially a monopoly as they were the only ones to make them in the U.S. Other companies began to make them but also charged a lot because they could. Also, because sporting goods stores didn't carry them, you paid out the wazoo for shipping. This is now changing. Sporting goods stores are now selling them for somewhat reasonable prices, but the weights are pretty light. IMO, Perform Better has the best values. I think they sold their souls to UPS because shipping is like $7.

I know I sound like a sales rep for Perform Better but I'm really not. I would encourage everyone to do a search to try and find the best deals - then report what you find here so we can all benefit. You'll frequently see used KBs on ebay for a decent price. Other options include the Kettlestack which allows you to use weight plates on a handle to make an adjustable KB. Good product, great for swings, but the weight plates make it somewhat uncomfortable for snatches.

I sympathize with those who don't like the expense. But I look at it this way - these things are fun and their fun-factor has allowed me to stick with an exercise program for many years now. Sure, I've slacked off in my training and eating habits during the years, but on the whole I have kept exercising fairly regularly. How many New Year's resolutioners will still be in the gym by the end of January? KBs have no moving parts so they can't break, so once you buy one or two they will last a lifetime and beyond. And as I mentioned, the goal of KB lifting is strength-endurance, so rather than lift more weight you try and lift the same weight for more reps. I have snatched and pressed a 40 kg (88 lbs. for the metrically challenged) KB, but the 16 kg still kicks my but in the VO2max protocol. I have yet to outgrow the 16 kg KB even though I can play with the 40. If I can use a 32 kg KB for 8 snatches every 15 seconds and keep this up for an hour, at that point I can probably say that I've outgrown the 16.
2008-12-30 3:53 PM
in reply to: #1866852

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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

I watched this video and I'm still having trouble "punching" and keeping the bell from destroying my wrist! Its doing exactly what he says not to do, which is letting it fall and hit my wrist. It hurts.

I'm wondering if I need a lighter one, but I think once I get the correct movement I don't think it will be too heavy. I just need to figure out how to get it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ubc4uJdyB8

2008-12-30 6:27 PM
in reply to: #1878341

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Comet - 2008-12-30 3:53 PM

I watched this video and I'm still having trouble "punching" and keeping the bell from destroying my wrist! Its doing exactly what he says not to do, which is letting it fall and hit my wrist. It hurts.

I'm wondering if I need a lighter one, but I think once I get the correct movement I don't think it will be too heavy. I just need to figure out how to get it right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ubc4uJdyB8



Jason Brown is a good guy and one thing that he mentions early on is to have the KB roll around your arm. It's difficult to describe and the best way is to have someone show you live. However, go back to the video and try to stop the video at 1:33. It needs to be exactly at that point. What you will see at the instant is that the KB is already in contact with the forearm before his arm is completely straight overhead. That's what you need to do to avoid banging your wrist and forearms. The bottom line is to not let the KB flip over your hand. The idea is to meet it before it has a chance to flip and hurt you.

Hope this helps.
2008-12-30 6:35 PM
in reply to: #1866852

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Here's one more video. This guy uses the technique used in girevoy sport which is the actual sport of KB lifting in Russia. These guys do insane numbers of reps. As you can see, the KB is huge (I think it's at least a 40 kg) and the guy snatching it is skinny. If he let the KB flip over it would break his twiggy arm in half. (And when I say twiggy that's not an insult; I'm amazed at how these guys can develop strength and efficient technique without gaining hardly any weight.) As you can see, the KB isn't close to flipping over. He meets up with it and prevents it from flipping. Also notice how he rotates his arm in the down position and then rotates back up. This is so that the KB will rotate around his arm and it also saves the grip which is important when you're going for reps. If you have healthy shoulders you can try this rotation technique. I competed in a KB lifting meet once and learned this technique. I still use it as it is very effective. But be careful because that rotation will put some torque on your arm and shoulder.

http://www.girevoysport.ru/snatch.htm


2008-12-30 6:43 PM
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

Thanks. I will check them out. I'm at work now (and don't have the KB with me--thought about bringing it) and may not be able to access the video. I know I can't get youtube but I'll see what else I can find.

I was trying to flip as I punched. I watched that part a couple times, but I will study it more. I am planning on going to CrossFit Friday and Saturday and I can ask one of the coaches to take me through it step-by-step until I get it right.

I love the KB, one of the few things I can do with a broken ankle right now.

 

And the next exercise: Turkish Get Up. I was pretty close to having good form earlier this year, but my KB is too heavy. I do need a lighter one to be able to get good form with it. I think I should move that up to higher up on my "To Get" list. I don't know if I could do both sides with one bum ankle right now though, so I'm going to hold off on trying with my 25lb-er.

2008-12-30 6:44 PM
in reply to: #1866852

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
One more video of the girevoy sport or GS snatch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MthV9Ydc-ww&feature=related
2008-12-30 6:55 PM
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Queen BTich
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

The girevoy video works, not the youtube. I see what you mean about it 'rolling' and not so much flipping. I guess the youtube video describing it as 'punching' was throwing me off. It was leading to definite banging on my forearm.

I guess I need to find more videos from sites other than youtube tonight. I know that the main CrossFit website has some that I can access here. I really wish I would have brought it with me to work, I'm not busy and could do some form work here. Oh well.

2008-12-30 9:00 PM
in reply to: #1878570

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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Comet - 2008-12-30 6:43 PM

Thanks. I will check them out. I'm at work now (and don't have the KB with me--thought about bringing it) and may not be able to access the video. I know I can't get youtube but I'll see what else I can find.

I was trying to flip as I punched. I watched that part a couple times, but I will study it more. I am planning on going to CrossFit Friday and Saturday and I can ask one of the coaches to take me through it step-by-step until I get it right.

I love the KB, one of the few things I can do with a broken ankle right now.

 

And the next exercise: Turkish Get Up. I was pretty close to having good form earlier this year, but my KB is too heavy. I do need a lighter one to be able to get good form with it. I think I should move that up to higher up on my "To Get" list. I don't know if I could do both sides with one bum ankle right now though, so I'm going to hold off on trying with my 25lb-er.

 

When you get to working on the TGU take it slowly one movement at a time to build up proper form. This video really helped me break it down.

http://www.charlotteord.com/12daysoffitness/killer_abs_4.html

2009-01-15 8:59 AM
in reply to: #1866852

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Master
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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
I did a kettle bells class for the first time this morning. I was sweating up a storm and feeling the burn!

It was a challenge to do the techniques, but easy to learn. I think I am hooked!


2009-01-18 1:10 AM
in reply to: #1866852


1

Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
I think KB's are perfect for triathlon training. Simply reason is that most of your main exercises (swings, cleans, snatches) really work your posterior chain (hamstrings, lower back, upperback). All those areas that are often overlooked in endurance athletes.

I have a bunch of them at home and haven't been to a gym in a long time. You can do 20min swings (for example) then run and still have a good length workout and thats not mentioning the "core" benefits.


2009-02-21 1:23 PM
in reply to: #1877826

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Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training

MikeTheBear - 2008-12-30 12:30 PM
colby995 - 2008-12-30 10:17 AM Why are kettle bells so expensive! other than that I love them
Because in the past, Dragon Door had essentially a monopoly as they were the only ones to make them in the U.S. Other companies began to make them but also charged a lot because they could. Also, because sporting goods stores didn't carry them, you paid out the wazoo for shipping. This is now changing. Sporting goods stores are now selling them for somewhat reasonable prices, but the weights are pretty light. IMO, Perform Better has the best values. I think they sold their souls to UPS because shipping is like $7. I know I sound like a sales rep for Perform Better but I'm really not. I would encourage everyone to do a search to try and find the best deals - then report what you find here so we can all benefit.

Fwiw, I took a chance ordering a 16kg (35lb) kettlebell online from MuscleDriver USA, and am very pleased with mine, from their "gray series".  It is smoother than shown in the pictures, nicely finished, and came well packed--only 2 days after ordering, no less!  My total was less than $60 to have it show up on my doorstep. Of course I'm only two states away from them--they are in South Carolina, so that likely helped with the shipping part. Great ordering followup too, with emails including tracking number when shipped, etc.

http://www.muscledriverusa.com/grsev2ke.html

I like it better than the $90 GoFit one I was eyeing at a big box sporting goods store. Now to make it through Turkish Get Ups on both sides, wow this is harder than it looks! Thanks to all for the links to KB videos and such...



Edited by Tridiot 2009-02-21 1:30 PM
2009-02-21 4:56 PM
in reply to: #1974801

Elite
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Denver, Colorado
Subject: RE: kettlebells for triathlon training
Tridiot - 2009-02-21 1:23 PM

MikeTheBear - 2008-12-30 12:30 PM
colby995 - 2008-12-30 10:17 AM Why are kettle bells so expensive! other than that I love them
Because in the past, Dragon Door had essentially a monopoly as they were the only ones to make them in the U.S. Other companies began to make them but also charged a lot because they could. Also, because sporting goods stores didn't carry them, you paid out the wazoo for shipping. This is now changing. Sporting goods stores are now selling them for somewhat reasonable prices, but the weights are pretty light. IMO, Perform Better has the best values. I think they sold their souls to UPS because shipping is like $7. I know I sound like a sales rep for Perform Better but I'm really not. I would encourage everyone to do a search to try and find the best deals - then report what you find here so we can all benefit.

Fwiw, I took a chance ordering a 16kg (35lb) kettlebell online from MuscleDriver USA, and am very pleased with mine, from their "gray series".  It is smoother than shown in the pictures, nicely finished, and came well packed--only 2 days after ordering, no less!  My total was less than $60 to have it show up on my doorstep. Of course I'm only two states away from them--they are in South Carolina, so that likely helped with the shipping part. Great ordering followup too, with emails including tracking number when shipped, etc.

http://www.muscledriverusa.com/grsev2ke.html

I like it better than the $90 GoFit one I was eyeing at a big box sporting goods store. Now to make it through Turkish Get Ups on both sides, wow this is harder than it looks! Thanks to all for the links to KB videos and such...



Perform Better's shipping costs have gone up so they are no longer the cheapest around.

Turkish get ups are deceptively difficult.
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