one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please

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2009-01-06 11:09 PM

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Champion
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Subject: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
as i start to put together training for the next few months, i am looking for some input on these two sports (the swimming more so than the cycling as i know much less about it).



on the swimming, i am looking for:



where my training should head for the next two months or so



what types of workouts should i be doing



what type of volume and frequency?



a bit more info: i am focusing on sprint distance racing, and will prob only venture out of that once or twice this year.

over the past 2.5 months i have been ave 5-7k a week in the pool, not a ton of harder stuff, mainly just trying to stay active and in the pool.

have had a few higher milage weeks, and longest workout to date (in the past 3 months) was 4100.

swimming in a 25yrd pool, current times are as of this week 100 yrds in 1:04, 500 yards at 1:17 pace.

learned how to swim 3 years ago, got some more coaching a few months back, now need to know where to focus.

i have approx 2 hours 5-6 days a week to devote to swimming.



On the cycling front, i have a much better idea, but any input is always helpful.

looking at training for sprint distance here as well, 10-15mile bike.

right now i have 6-8 hours per week i can put towards cycling.



where would you focus over the next two months? (racing for me starts mid april).


2009-01-07 12:03 PM
in reply to: #1891271

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Champion
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
2009-01-07 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1892373

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Cycling Guru
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please

I've been out of the office all morning and the early part of the afternoon ... sorry ......

I'll leave the swimming to Bob (rstocks) and Dan (docswim) as they are the super fishies.

For the cycling .... I know you've got a ton of base, so there doesn't need to be a lot of uberdistance stuff as long as you are only focusing on this sprint distance.

With that said, I would still say one session of the week should be a 50 - 60 miler at your IM pace with varied terrain.  Attack any hills and push them moderate hard effort and recover on the downhills.  Keep cadence and effort even on the flats.  Should be a min. 2-1/2 hour session.

I'd then go with another 3 or 4 rides for the rest of the week.  For one, ideally I'd want to see a shorter recovery spin the day after your longer ride of 45 - 60 minutes .... easy pace, all small chainring.  Then another session should be a threshold session - 5 - 10 mile warm up, 30 - 40 minutes at Oly. pace, 5 - 10 warm down.  If you are doing 3 sessions, then the last I would recommend would be progressive intervals or hills at above your projected sprint race pace effort - these should be 5 - 10 minute efforts with full recovery between.  Start with 3 or 4 and work up to 6 to 8.  Easy paced warm up and cool down.  Session would last about 60 - 90 minutes including warm up and cool down.  If you were to have the 4 workouts during the week, make the last one another recovery session.

So to make it simple: 1 medium-long moderate pace, 1 tempo, 1 interval, 1 or 2 recovery.  Tempo and interval sessions should be a minimum of 3 days apart.

2009-01-07 2:31 PM
in reply to: #1891271

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Coach
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please

Help for Cycling

For swimming - If you have the time for the next 2 months I would advice you to swim LOTS. get someone to analyze your stroke to give you drills to improve and practice some drills every session and build to swim 5+ x week and 3K+ per session. some days swim easy, others longer (3-5K) and a few hard/shorter ( 2-2.5Kmoderate to hard).

later you can switch and just maintain power on bike and build endurance, build speed on swimming and maintain endurance, and make running your priority... good luck

2009-01-07 10:18 PM
in reply to: #1892832

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Champion
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
thanks to both of you.

last season i was traning for distances all over the map, and training mid season looked about like this:

5 swims per week between 3.6 and 4k,
4-5 rides, longer ride, 2 hour ride with middle half tempo, and three easy. (alternating weeks added in either 6-10min intervals or 10mile TT)

running 5-6 days per week for totals around 24-35 miles

getting better about logging everything now so i can actually look back and see what was working and what was not.

ideally i would like to see training in the 22-25 hour range onec the season rolls around, and will have the time to dedicate to that.
2009-01-08 8:50 AM
in reply to: #1891271

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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
The race distance effects the training load required only to the extent that you have the ability to complete the distance... I see your goal is to turn pro for short course... so I'd follow the Lydiard model:

stage 1: aerobic capacity (as long as possible)
-- steady state tempo rides, brisk group rides. 3 x 1000 on your T-pace in the pool... as much as possible, build your base (the 2nd wave of change).

stage 2: anaerobic capacity (6 weeks)
-- 'the icing on the cake'. hill repeats (< 3min) on the bike... 100-200 all out repeats in the pool. still the vast majority of your work is aerobic as in the first stage.

stage 3: coordination period (6 weeks)
-- race specific training. find some 20k & 40k time trials in your area. some open water races ... still the vast majority of your work is aerobic as in the first stage.

good luck!

Edited by lrobb 2009-01-08 8:50 AM

2009-01-08 9:52 AM
in reply to: #1892874

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Master
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
JorgeM - 2009-01-07 3:31 PM

Help for Cycling

For swimming - If you have the time for the next 2 months I would advice you to swim LOTS. get someone to analyze your stroke to give you drills to improve and practice some drills every session and build to swim 5+ x week and 3K+ per session. some days swim easy, others longer (3-5K) and a few hard/shorter ( 2-2.5Kmoderate to hard).

later you can switch and just maintain power on bike and build endurance, build speed on swimming and maintain endurance, and make running your priority... good luck



Good advice ^^^^

The only things I would add is to make sure that you have a coach with a good reputation analyze your stroke in person (video taping your stroke can be useful) and if possible swim with a masters team. Having people to push with in practice generally makes people work harder and should get you to push yourself at race pace (key for the shorter distance races) a fair amount of time. Also having a coach on deck to ask questions, look at your stroke is obviously a benefit.
2009-01-08 10:34 AM
in reply to: #1894693

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Champion
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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
thanks guys.

swimming with a team for the next few weeks is not an option, but will be moving shortly and will be hopefully joining one then.

2009-01-08 3:13 PM
in reply to: #1891271

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Subject: RE: one for the swimmers and cyclists, some training help/ideas please
You already have some great advice from others. You can also check out www.swimplan.com which allows you to tailor your workouts to your needs/desires. Check it out and see if it's of any use. Still won't replace a coach or other guidance you might get from a clinic, etc.
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