So the water temp is 78.1 degrees.....
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2009-01-21 10:27 AM |
Expert 828 | Subject: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... ...and not wetsuit legal.... Would you still wear a wetsuit?? All it means is if you do, you cannot accept awards. For all of the MOP and BOP'rs, that isn't an issue. Is this a common thing for MOP/BOP racers to do...still wear the wetsuit in non legal races?? Only 2 of my 5 races last year were above 78 and they were sprints... I ask b/c I did a sprint last year and the water temp was 77.9. So a couple of tenths higher and not wetsuit legal... I figure since I am not a contender for AG awards, I might as well plan on wearing it when I do the HIM at the same event...It makes me faster and I work less..... What say you guys and gals????? |
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2009-01-21 10:32 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... no, I wouldn't wear it. that's why I train and prepare myself to be able to complete the distance with or without one; for me that is a challenge I want to be ready to tackle... |
2009-01-21 10:33 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Champion 4835 Eat Cheese or Die | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I would. I'm not getting any awards anytime soon. My only concern would be overheating during the half. I will start to over heat after 20 minutes or so of swimming in a suit at 78 degrees. I can usually mitigate it by scooping fresh water into the suit through the neck hole every couple minutes. It's a guess that taking the time to put fresh water in the suit is less then the time gained from wearing it. |
2009-01-21 10:35 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... In my oly last year (where we actually swam .. the other one they cancelled the ocean swim and made it a Du) it was just over 78. I figured I would be in contention with the field, so I did not wear my wetsuit. I did wear my speedsuit that I had bought for just that circumstance the year before. Swim ended up being long and I had a terrible one, then got a flat about 3 miles into the ride, so my chances of placing were thrown out the window anyway although I still ended up 9th in the AG. If you feel the comfort need for a wetsuit, go for it! It is your race to do as you please. |
2009-01-21 10:42 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Expert 1296 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Uggg a great question. Last year at Eagleman the air temps were in the upper 90s and the humidity matched. It was like this at 5 AM down in transition. I remember putting on my wetsuit about 5 minutes before my wave went off and just dying in that thing. The water temps were reported to be about 78 or so. I think they are full of $hit. The water was so warm that by the turn back home I was so overheated in the swim. So, with that being said, never again....would I wear that thing if the temps are borderline. |
2009-01-21 10:50 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Extreme Veteran 549 Marietta, GA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. |
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2009-01-21 11:40 AM in reply to: #1920151 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
Edited by lisac957 2009-01-21 11:43 AM |
2009-01-21 11:43 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Pro 4612 MA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... 78 °C is warm enough NOT to wear a wetsuit. |
2009-01-21 11:44 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Veteran 325 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... HTFU and don't wear it. I've done more than 35 races in my life and can't recall a single person wearing a wetsuit when the water temp was in the 78-82 gray zone. |
2009-01-21 11:56 AM in reply to: #1920100 |
Veteran 134 Lakewood, CA | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} I will be doing the Vineman 70.3 this year. It is stated on the web site that water temps could be above 78 degrees and not wetsuit legal. However, I have been reading race reports from the last 5 years and the water temperature always seems to be 77 degrees which makes the race wetsuit legal. I believe they do not take an accurate temperature so that it can be a wetsuit legal race. I will not be placing in by AG at this race and will only be racing myself. That said, I would still like to place high in my AG and will be giving it everything I have. There is too much of a competitive advantage when wearing a wetsuit versus not wearing one. If it is wetsuit legal I will be wearing my wetsuit, but I am afraid of overheating. However, I swim quite well without a wetsuit and hope that it is not wetsuit legal because I believe I will place higher if everyone does not have a wetsuit. Although, I am thinking about buying a speed suit. |
2009-01-21 12:06 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Champion 5495 Whizzzzzlandia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I wouldn't wear it. You will be hot and sweaty. Any opportunity to NOT wear a wetsuit is a great thing, in my opinion. |
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2009-01-21 12:10 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I would not, but I am comfortable swimming without a wetsuit. If it's a sprint, your time savings go down, shorter time in the water, longer time in transition taking it off (only a couple seconds, but still....). If it's Oly or longer, i would just get overheated. Doesn't just affect the swim, affects your performance later in the race. Your body has to do some work to regulate that temperature, so you may not in fact be working less |
2009-01-21 12:15 PM in reply to: #1920284 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:40 PM EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it. That is not really right. It is the race directors call above 78 as to whether or not they want to allow people to use them, but with the caveat that they will not be eligible for placing. As the OP said. It has been the same in the races I've done where it is either really close or over the cut off. At the one I mentioned, they recorded your number before the swim start if you wanted to wear one. No penalty, just moved you out of the AG category. But yes, if the wetsuit is used as a "crutch" then there are some other underlying swim issues and perhaps it is not best to do races without one until they are more comfortable swimming. |
2009-01-21 12:20 PM in reply to: #1920284 |
Expert 958 Mississippi | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957 - 2009-01-21 11:40 AM kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
It's not AGAINST the rules. It just takes you out of awards consideration if the water temperature is between 78.1 and 83.9 degrees F. Thus, if you want to wear a wetsuit at 81 degrees, it's your option, but if you place, you don't get awarded as such. That being said, I don't think I would consider the person INcapable of swimming the distance without the wetsuit if I saw someone wearing one. I just know it makes swimming a lot easier for folks. I don't think I would wear one. I've swam a lot of races without a wetsuit that were VERY wetsuit legal. I regret NOT wearing a wetsuit in those situations. Just be aware of the overheating potential if you do decide to wear it. |
2009-01-21 12:26 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Member 587 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... I view the wetsuit as a tool that has potential to aid me in completing the race in a faster time. If temps are wetsuit legal, wear it. If not, go without. Even though I doubt I would be in contention for a podium spot I would forgo the suit if it automatically barred me from contention. |
2009-01-21 12:30 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... 78 degrees is too warm for me to wear a wetsuit. I just end up overheating and having a worse swim. But, I'm pretty comfortable swimming without one. |
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2009-01-21 12:32 PM in reply to: #1920379 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Daremo - 2009-01-21 12:15 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:40 PM EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it. That is not really right. It is the race directors call above 78 as to whether or not they want to allow people to use them, but with the caveat that they will not be eligible for placing. As the OP said. It has been the same in the races I've done where it is either really close or over the cut off. At the one I mentioned, they recorded your number before the swim start if you wanted to wear one. No penalty, just moved you out of the AG category. But yes, if the wetsuit is used as a "crutch" then there are some other underlying swim issues and perhaps it is not best to do races without one until they are more comfortable swimming. What's "not right"? That I've never seen it? How would you know? I understand the rules; I was simply stating that I have never observed it in the races I've participated in or watched. Which is why I would think someone would really stand out if they chose to do so.
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2009-01-21 12:34 PM in reply to: #1920386 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:20 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 11:40 AM kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
It's not AGAINST the rules. It just takes you out of awards consideration if the water temperature is between 78.1 and 83.9 degrees F. Thus, if you want to wear a wetsuit at 81 degrees, it's your option, but if you place, you don't get awarded as such. Fair enough. In my mind, though, they don't assess penalties unless you've broken a rule.
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2009-01-21 12:42 PM in reply to: #1920429 |
Expert 958 Mississippi | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:34 PM kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:20 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 11:40 AM kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
It's not AGAINST the rules. It just takes you out of awards consideration if the water temperature is between 78.1 and 83.9 degrees F. Thus, if you want to wear a wetsuit at 81 degrees, it's your option, but if you place, you don't get awarded as such. Fair enough. In my mind, though, they don't assess penalties unless you've broken a rule.
Who said it was a penalty? USAT certainly doesn't refer to it as a penalty. And it's NOT breaking a rule to wear the wetsuit at 78.1 degrees F as stated before. |
2009-01-21 12:50 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Regular 68 Columbia, SC | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... In every race I've done where it was above 78 degrees and below 84, they did not allow you to race with a wetsuit with your AG wave. They lumped all 'wetsuiters' into the last wave. If you wear a wetsuit about 78 you are only out there to finish so there is no reason to start with the AGers anyway. |
2009-01-21 12:53 PM in reply to: #1920451 |
Alpharetta, Georgia | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:42 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:34 PM kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:20 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 11:40 AM kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
It's not AGAINST the rules. It just takes you out of awards consideration if the water temperature is between 78.1 and 83.9 degrees F. Thus, if you want to wear a wetsuit at 81 degrees, it's your option, but if you place, you don't get awarded as such. Fair enough. In my mind, though, they don't assess penalties unless you've broken a rule.
Who said it was a penalty? USAT certainly doesn't refer to it as a penalty. And it's NOT breaking a rule to wear the wetsuit at 78.1 degrees F as stated before. Perhaps I should have put it in quotes to appease the wordsmiths. The "penalty" is not being eligible for AG awards. That seems obvious. You are put in a different category because you choose to play by a different set of rules. I also said "in my mind." Which refers to the fact that not everyone thinks exactly alike.
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2009-01-21 12:59 PM in reply to: #1920482 |
Expert 958 Mississippi | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:53 PM kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:42 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:34 PM kmill23 - 2009-01-21 12:20 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 11:40 AM kuotaguy - 2009-01-21 10:50 AM Wear it. Challenging yourself is one thing, using the rules to help you race better is another. Well technically, wearing it above 78 degrees would be against the rules. I guess I see it in the same boat as fouling in basketball. It's definitely against the rules, and as such, you are assessed a penalty. In certain situations, it can be advantageous from a strategic standpoint. Is the penalty worth it to you? EDIT: I also wanted to add that I've never, ever seen a wetsuit being worn in a non-wetsuit-legal race. If I did... I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically uncapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. Either way, you will definitley stand out in a big way if you wear it.
It's not AGAINST the rules. It just takes you out of awards consideration if the water temperature is between 78.1 and 83.9 degrees F. Thus, if you want to wear a wetsuit at 81 degrees, it's your option, but if you place, you don't get awarded as such. Fair enough. In my mind, though, they don't assess penalties unless you've broken a rule.
Who said it was a penalty? USAT certainly doesn't refer to it as a penalty. And it's NOT breaking a rule to wear the wetsuit at 78.1 degrees F as stated before. Perhaps I should have put it in quotes to appease the wordsmiths. The "penalty" is not being eligible for AG awards. That seems obvious. You are put in a different category because you choose to play by a different set of rules. I also said "in my mind." Which refers to the fact that not everyone thinks exactly alike.
Wordsmith I am not. An observant reader would be a more appropriate title. I just wanted to clarify for those that would consider wearing a wetsuit between the temperatures of 78.1 and 83.9 that it is NOT a penalty and it IS legal. I wasn't trying to offend you at all. |
2009-01-21 1:05 PM in reply to: #1920100 |
Expert 938 | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... Not sure if it semantics or not, but the races I've been in don't just disqualify you from the awards for wearing a wetsuit, they disqualify you from placing at all. Those who decided to wear wetsuits are placed in their own little group at the bottom of the standings sheet, because they didn't "race." They were allowed to be in triathlon, their time was recorded, but that's it. There is no reporting of their time to any agencies, since they technically didn't race.
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2009-01-21 1:10 PM in reply to: #1920424 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... lisac957 - 2009-01-21 1:32 PM Daremo - 2009-01-21 12:15 PM lisac957 - 2009-01-21 12:40 PM EDIT:I would immediately think either the guy did not understand the rules, or was physically incapable of completing the swim without it. In which case he should not be in the water. That is not really right. What's "not right"? I understand the rules; I was simply stating that I have never observed it in the races I've participated in or watched. Which is why I would think someone would really stand out if they chose to do so. Wow, pretty touchy aren't we? You stated you understand the rules. But in your previous post you said that the person wearing it either did not understand the rules or is incapable of swimming without it. Two very not-so-nice things to say. Because you have demonstrated that you do NOT understand the rules. The rule states (verbatim):
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2009-01-21 1:14 PM in reply to: #1920319 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: So the water temp is 78.1 degrees..... TriAgainJim - 2009-01-21 9:56 AM I will be doing the Vineman 70.3 this year. It is stated on the web site that water temps could be above 78 degrees and not wetsuit legal. However, I have been reading race reports from the last 5 years and the water temperature always seems to be 77 degrees which makes the race wetsuit legal. I believe they do not take an accurate temperature so that it can be a wetsuit legal race. I did that race last summer and what I heard on site (and this may be bogus) is that there is a release of cooler water from upstream the day (or night?) before that tweaks the water temp down a couple degrees. (It was officially 75 at the start last summer.) I wore my wetsuit for the race and was happy I did. Had the temps been over 78, I'd have ditched it (I did a practice swim without it on the course the previous morning)...not so much that I thought I had a shot at an age group award (I didn't and knew it), but just that I do like to see where I stand against others in my AG, competing under the conditions of the day. For the Full Vineman this summer, if it's not wetsuit legal, I won't be wearing my wetsuit, even given that option. |
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