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IM training = getting really good at Zone 2?
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 2009-02-26 3:01 PM |
Extreme Veteran  662    Sunny San Diego |  Subject: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2?This is probably and over-simplification but for us mere mortals who just want to finish an IM in one piece- is the best approach getting really good at training and racing at zone 2? I understand the importance of Z4-5 work to get stronger and faster. But should most of the time and miles be done at race intensity, even if it feels too easy? You hear it all the time with IM race pace strategy- ride the bike easy and slow it down 1-2 mph further. Run the marathon easy and slow it down 30 seconds to a minute slower per mile. . |
| 2009-02-26 3:32 PM in reply to: #1984099 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Yes. Most of your training should be Z2 work. You want to train your body to be as efficient and fast at that intesity as it can be. I'm not sure about the ride/run easy THEN slow it down. Just be in Z2. That is not always 'easy'. |
| 2009-02-26 3:56 PM in reply to: #1984142 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Well ....... you can really go up to Z3 for the whole time and not run into issues ...... as long as you are trained for that and get your nutrition right. Basically you stay about 3 - 5 beats under LT for the whole thing (bearing in mind that you will have HR creep - aka cardiac drift). Going Z2 the whole race would be like just making it another training day and not really "racing" it from an effort perspective imo. |
 2009-02-26 3:59 PM in reply to: #1984099 |
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| 2009-02-26 4:08 PM in reply to: #1984099 |
| Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? 1st of all, let's keep in mind training levels are man made to allows us to train more efficiently but all levels blend into each other hence doing training at one level still stimulates other training adaptations mainly targeted on onther levels at a lesser degree. 2nd basing training levels defined from specific physiological adaptations achieved at different efforts as defined here then I would say:
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| 2009-02-26 4:47 PM in reply to: #1984230 |
Champion 8540  the colony texas | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Here are my training zones Zone 1 == train lots Zone 2 == train more Zone 3 = train lots but smarter also |
| 2009-02-26 4:52 PM in reply to: #1984195 |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Daremo - 2009-02-26 1:56 PM Well ....... you can really go up to Z3 for the whole time and not run into issues ...... as long as you are trained for that and get your nutrition right. Basically you stay about 3 - 5 beats under LT for the whole thing (bearing in mind that you will have HR creep - aka cardiac drift). Going Z2 the whole race would be like just making it another training day and not really "racing" it from an effort perspective imo. I can see that... For my first (and only, so far) IM, the 'plan' was to stay in Z2 the most I could because I had trouble tanking in HIM's going faster than that, and my BIGGEST objective was to complete my first one (IM). Also, it's not REALLY just another training session. I never did a 14-15 hour training session before. 6-7 hrs tops, and that was only biking. I KNEW doing Z2 on the bike would let me run a marathon. I was not so sure if I pushed Z3 or Z4. That being said, I was in Z3 for at least 2/3 of the bike, but slowed down the second half to be ready for my run. Maybe too much, since I finished my run pretty strong. Mostly in Z2 for the first half, and then higher the closer to the end and the more secure I felt in that I was going to finish. My second race? I might push more. I already can say I did one, now it's time to improve, at the risk of blowing up. |
| 2009-02-26 4:55 PM in reply to: #1984230 |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? JorgeM - 2009-02-26 2:08 PM 1st of all, let's keep in mind training levels are man made to allows us to train more efficiently but all levels blend into each other hence doing training at one level still stimulates other training adaptations mainly targeted on onther levels at a lesser degree. 2nd basing training levels defined from specific physiological adaptations achieved at different efforts as defined here then I would say:
meh, I wish it was that easy!!! I won my division doing high level 2/low 3. But I can't KQ by going 3. I'm too slow, unfit, or big (6'-8", 235#), or a combination of the three. |
| 2009-02-26 5:04 PM in reply to: #1984304 |
| Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Aikidoman - 2009-02-26 4:55 PM JorgeM - 2009-02-26 2:08 PM 1st of all, let's keep in mind training levels are man made to allows us to train more efficiently but all levels blend into each other hence doing training at one level still stimulates other training adaptations mainly targeted on onther levels at a lesser degree. 2nd basing training levels defined from specific physiological adaptations achieved at different efforts as defined here then I would say:
meh, I wish it was that easy!!! I won my division doing high level 2/low 3. But I can't KQ by going 3. I'm too slow, unfit, or big (6'-8", 235#), or a combination of the three. If that is the case then I DOUBT you indeed did the adequate training load at the adequate levels suggested on the link I posted above, especially after your LT thread on Tri-Talk. Of course it is not as easy as do your training at x or y pace/power and voila you’ll KQ however if would get a sample of the specific training most KQers do, I bet you in general the majority will exhibit they spent enough time in their specific phase around this intensity. In light of that meh right back at ya! |
| 2009-02-26 6:02 PM in reply to: #1984320 |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? JorgeM - 2009-02-26 3:04 PM Aikidoman - 2009-02-26 4:55 PM JorgeM - 2009-02-26 2:08 PM 1st of all, let's keep in mind training levels are man made to allows us to train more efficiently but all levels blend into each other hence doing training at one level still stimulates other training adaptations mainly targeted on onther levels at a lesser degree. 2nd basing training levels defined from specific physiological adaptations achieved at different efforts as defined here then I would say:
meh, I wish it was that easy!!! I won my division doing high level 2/low 3. But I can't KQ by going 3. I'm too slow, unfit, or big (6'-8", 235#), or a combination of the three. If that is the case then I DOUBT you indeed did the adequate training load at the adequate levels suggested on the link I posted above, especially after your LT thread on Tri-Talk. Of course it is not as easy as do your training at x or y pace/power and voila you’ll KQ however if would get a sample of the specific training most KQers do, I bet you in general the majority will exhibit they spent enough time in their specific phase around this intensity. In light of that meh right back at ya! I would agree 100% with the chart and that you have to push Z3/Z4 to KQ. I would love to see a KQ athlete stay in recovery mode the entire time! But based on my current ability and fitness level (genetic limitations?), being in Z3/Z4 doesn't automatically get me there. I have to be fast too! Is all I meant... |
| 2009-02-26 6:16 PM in reply to: #1984195 |
| Extreme Veteran 662 Sunny San Diego | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? Do you believe the theory that high volume Z2 training raises your LT? I got tested this week and found out my LT is 140. Would it be a good strategy for me doing my first IM in November to do 90% at Z2 and bust my butt for "hard" workouts? From what I understand training in Z3 doesn't let you recover enough and takes energy away from your Z4/Z5 work. Daremo - 2009-02-26 12:56 PM Well ....... you can really go up to Z3 for the whole time and not run into issues ...... as long as you are trained for that and get your nutrition right. Basically you stay about 3 - 5 beats under LT for the whole thing (bearing in mind that you will have HR creep - aka cardiac drift). Going Z2 the whole race would be like just making it another training day and not really "racing" it from an effort perspective imo. |
| 2009-02-26 6:45 PM in reply to: #1984434 |
| Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? joker70 - 2009-02-26 4:16 PM Do you believe the theory that high volume Z2 training raises your LT? I got tested this week and found out my LT is 140. Would it be a good strategy for me doing my first IM in November to do 90% at Z2 and bust my butt for "hard" workouts? From what I understand training in Z3 doesn't let you recover enough and takes energy away from your Z4/Z5 work. Daremo - 2009-02-26 12:56 PM Well ....... you can really go up to Z3 for the whole time and not run into issues ...... as long as you are trained for that and get your nutrition right. Basically you stay about 3 - 5 beats under LT for the whole thing (bearing in mind that you will have HR creep - aka cardiac drift). Going Z2 the whole race would be like just making it another training day and not really "racing" it from an effort perspective imo. Some of these guys probably know better. But Z2 training will minimally raise your LT, if at all. Based on what I read, workouts that are at LT or close to it, will make more sigificant gains at raising your LT. |
| 2009-02-26 7:22 PM in reply to: #1984434 |
| Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: IM training = getting really good at Zone 2? joker70 - 2009-02-26 6:16 PM Do you believe the theory that high volume Z2 training raises your LT? I got tested this week and found out my LT is 140. Would it be a good strategy for me doing my first IM in November to do 90% at Z2 and bust my butt for "hard" workouts? From what I understand training in Z3 doesn't let you recover enough and takes energy away from your Z4/Z5 work. That’s inaccurate thinking which was spread by some popular coaches referring to it as 'gray zone' training. Even now some of those popular coaches have accepted that their original thing is/was incorrect. ETA – on my OP I mentioned: “keep in mind training levels are man made to allows us to train more efficiently but all levels blend into each other hence doing training at one level still stimulates other training adaptations mainly targeted on other levels at a lesser degree” IOW yes, when you are doing training at z2 you are mainly adapting your slow twitch muscle to become more fatigue resistant however you are also achieving other training adaptations such as improvement of LT or glycogen storage capacity at a lesser degree. Training at different levels doesn’t mean at one point you stop inducing certain adaptations and begin inducing other adaptations. They all interlayer one with another, it just varies what primarily adaptations to target the most at what intensity. Edited by JorgeM 2009-02-26 7:28 PM |
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