Pool swim...training/racing....push off, flip, or...

Don't forget dealing with the mass of humanity at each wall.  Flip turns really are a possibility for only the first couple of swimmers away in a pool tri.  After that, it's like rush hour traffic.

It training, I flip turn.  Sure, you don't flip turn in open water, but you don't stop and reverse course either.  Just get the yardage in.  That's what is important.

 For the tri I plan on doing in June, it will be done in waves.  8 lane pool, two swimmers/lane splitting each lane in two.  So, we can do full flip turns etc - same as in practice.

I did one similar to this back last year.  Only the first few people have a pool with enough room to execute a flip turn.  I ended up having to push off and then pass people in the lane.  Whatever works for you.

The way that the pool was set up was in a serpentine pattern.  Down the first lane then under the rope and back down the lane next to it...rinse and repeat. 

Hope this helps

The indoors I have done give you your own lane (or side of a lane) so you are in a crowd ever.  Others I have watched do the S thing up one side, down the next up the next lane... (again there is never a crowd)

So crowds and traffic aren't a problem from what I have experienced.

As run4yrlif mentioned it is important to do them well.  If you can't do them well you will go slower than an open turn and maybe get hurt. 

I have read a hundred times before that you can't win a tri in the swim but you can lose it.

So, unless you have a very good flip turn - do an open turn.

I was a competitive swimmer and but now days during practice I do open turns have the time.

btw - doing a good open turn is not the same as just turning around and pushing off.   I recommend to the non competive swimmer to learmn to do a quality open turn in competition.

merlin2375 - 2009-03-02 10:48 AM Thanks for all the replies! That definitely helps me understand how the swim will work in the pool for racing. I hope I can figure out the bike/run

What about for training, do most of you flip turn? I can flip turn well but it messes with my breathing a little bit so often I opt not to do it but I never know if I'm making the right choice!

I always do flip turns but you will get a wide variety of answers on this, some do and some don't.  I'm a former swimmer and for me, it's just the natural thing to do.

I always do flip turns in training.  It's easier for me than stopping at the wall and doing an open turn.  I feel like I am less likely to stop and take a break.  It's an efficiency thing for me.

In pool swim races, I have done flip turns when I can.  A lot of times, it's not possible due to the number of people in the pool around you and the way the lane lines are set up.  Scratches on your back from the lane lines really hurt. 

axteraa - 2009-03-02 10:22 AM

merlin2375 - 2009-03-02 10:48 AM Thanks for all the replies! That definitely helps me understand how the swim will work in the pool for racing. I hope I can figure out the bike/run

What about for training, do most of you flip turn? I can flip turn well but it messes with my breathing a little bit so often I opt not to do it but I never know if I'm making the right choice!

I always do flip turns but you will get a wide variety of answers on this, some do and some don't.  I'm a former swimmer and for me, it's just the natural thing to do.

X2. I do flip turns whenever I can but have been doing them for almost 40 years so it's the natural way to swim.

The pool swims I have done have been "serpentine" swims where you start on one side of the pool go down the lane, back on the other side of same lane...under the rope to the next side ....repeat across the pool.  When you get to the other side you've done a 300 yard (or meter) swim. 

Other tri's are set up with a larger group circle swimming in each lane.  I have never seen that but I hear it can be done that way. 

I flip turn in practice but have never done it in the race cause my mechanics are so-so and I'm afraid I'd kick others in the face or something. 

I have come to prefer OWS races and the mass start.  In those you have equal footing with your own abilities as the limitations.  In a pool swim, even with properly seeded times the early swimmers can be finished (the whole race) before the slow swimmers even get into the pool.

merlin2375 - 2009-03-02 6:48 AM Thanks for all the replies! That definitely helps me understand how the swim will work in the pool for racing. I hope I can figure out the bike/run

What about for training, do most of you flip turn? I can flip turn well but it messes with my breathing a little bit so often I opt not to do it but I never know if I'm making the right choice!

yikes.  here's the can opener, hope you like worms. 

This is only my humble opinion, but if flip turning messes with your breathing enough that you don't do them, maybe you aren't doing them well?

I do them simply because that's what I do.  others don't, doesn't really matter as long as you are swimming

Again, just my opinion, but I think flip turns make one a better swimmer, allow one to maintain rhythm, and it's my general philosophy that with each leg we should strive to be the best we can in each leg and do what actual swimmers/bikers/runners do

In response to those that say there are no walls in OWS tris....   true.  But you don't stop and start from scratch every 25 yds either.  The only true OWS training is OW swimming.

*** NB: The above is not to be taken as a crticism of the ability, speed or virility of anyone that does open turns    *****

I do flip turns in training.  UNLESS, I need a slight break.  Open turns are less taxing on my breathing than flip turns.  I can get a split second longer to breath at the turn.

Flip turns are what good swimmers do (NOTE: I did not say TRIATHLETES - ***avoiding hot water***).  I think trying to mimic the best swimmers, cyclists, and runners, can't be a bad thing.

The whole "you don't do flip turns in races" doesn't hold much water for me.  I also don't do 5x5' interval runs, or 10x20" sprints on the bike in races.  I also swim outside in races and only in the gym for training.  I lift weights to get stronger, but I don't carry around dumbells in a race.  There are TONS of things you do in training that you don't do in races - to just say "it's not in the race, so I don't do it" doesn't fly in my thinking.

This works for me and how I train...

I don't think that it is the same thing.  Doing speed drills and lifting weights are integral for training.  Flip turns are not (unless you are doing them in the event) and therefore only need to be used for personal preference.

I would consider the body awareness and overall confidence/comfort in the water as a result of flip turns could be considered integral too.

I think that every aspect of swimming you can learn, all kinds of strokes, drills, flip turns, etc, can only help with confidence and comfort in the water (even though  you may do none of them in a race).  Something I see lacking in a lot of beginners or expereinced athletes who struggle with the swim - confidence.

So many people mention fear and anxiety with the swim.  I think having a broad base of knowledge, body awarness, and familiarity with all aspects of swimming can only have a positive affect on getting out there and doing it.

I don't know how to do flip turns.

 But when I swim and do turns, I do not push off and I do not take a breath during the turn.  I figure that makes it a bit "harder" than if I was swimming through the distance.