General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Talk to me about IM swim training Rss Feed  
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2009-03-12 10:35 AM

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Subject: Talk to me about IM swim training
There are a lot of threads that pertain to running and riding distance training for an IM, but not much on the swim. I am a self proclaimed swim training slacker. I usually only start swim training 2-3 months before an event and maybe swim 2-3 times a week for 25-40 min. That said, I usually do pretty well in the swim and I don’t think it effects the rest of my race. Maybe it’s due to years of surfing.

I am now for the first time following a training program that has me swimming way more than ever before. In 10 weeks I already have more hours than I did the entire year before my HIM. I’m happy to be doing it, but I have these questions/issues.

1. Although I can keep a pace of roughly 1:35 to 1:45/100yrds through my workout without over doing it, it’s getting hard to complete my workouts now that they are at 3000yrds per hour. Some of the reasons are due to the amount of drills, 3 people to a lane, arriving or leaving a few minutes late/early ect… The last 10 wks has me doing 3500 yrds /hour. Should I be really freaked about completing all 3500 yards every workout? If it’s a straight swim, I don’t have a problem finishing under and hour and I will be able to do a few long open water swims when it gets warm out, but for now, I’m stuck inside with an hour time limit at one pool and 50min at another pool.

2. What is your experience with Swim training and IM? How much were you swimming per hour and was an hour what you would stick to for most of your workouts?

3. If your pool was closed or you couldn’t make it, would you try to add that hour/s to your weekly run or ride?


2009-03-12 10:47 AM
in reply to: #2013211

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

Do as much as you can in the time available.  What more can you do?  If you have the time, though, there is no reason to be limited to an hour when doing the workout (even if that's what the plan says).

Most of my swims were roughly in the one hour ballpark (rarely less, sometimes a little longer).  This had more to do with my schedule than the optimal way to train.  If I had extra time, I would usually just swim a little more.  If I had to get out early, I would try to cut the cool-down first, then the drills, then any other warm-up.  I'd always try to do the main set.

I would only do an extra run/ride if I had the time and felt like I could handle it without impacting the rest of my workouts.  Generally, though, I would rather sleep more if I couldn't swim than add a run/ride.  Rest is valuable too.

2009-03-12 10:54 AM
in reply to: #2013253

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Sensei
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

I can add a couple responses...

I basically average 2:00/100 for a workout (including rest, kick sets, drill, etc).  That's how I schedule my swims.  However, I have a lane to myself all the time.

If it were ME training, I would shoot for the distance, no matter how long it takes, to be honest.  You have to get used to swimming that 2.4 miles.

I would say MOST of my swims were around 3000-3500, and it would take me anywhere from 55-70 minutes.  During my peak weeks, I had to get several in the 4000-4500 range.  So around 90min pool time.  Those made for some long days in the pool.

If you can't make a swim, I would probably forget it (or reduce it) and not bike or run instead.  If you do run or bike, I would probably make it a recovery run/ride as to not overtrain in those areas.

2009-03-12 11:33 AM
in reply to: #2013211

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

Swim was my stong suit, and I subscribe to the idea that the stronger swimmer you are, the better your IM day will be.  I strove to get out of the water fast and feeling as if I hadn't yet done anything.  That put me ahead of the large pack of people and set the pace for a good day.

My swims were 3K on the short side, 5000 on the long (which were pretty few). 

As for time, get in what you can.  Honestly though, doing drills in IM meat training is pointless to me.  During early base?  sure, but if you are in the thick of training, I don't think drills do anything for your swim (my own personal opinion).  Some things you can control.  Try to get there on time.  And levaing early?  what is that?    Some things you can't, working late, pool hours, etc.  Control what you can, let go of what you can't

My longest swim was about 1:20 or so.

I wouldn't make up "swim" time with bike/run, they don't translate.



Edited by ChrisM 2009-03-12 11:34 AM
2009-03-12 11:46 AM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
Hmmm...sounds like the "Be Iron Fit" plan, right?

I'm following it, and I noticed how Fink gives you an hour for each workout, yet bumps up the total yardage from 2500 to 3000 to 3500. I'm going by distance regardless of how long it takes. I have noticed some typo's in the book - so perhaps that was an oversight. But then again, Fink's philosophy is all about doing everything based on time, not distance - yet he gives these workouts in distance. Seems inconsistent. Like I said, I'm going w/ distance. and just getting to the pool earlier as my yardage increases.
2009-03-12 12:13 PM
in reply to: #2013211

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
Yes it is the Fink program. My problem is that my only two pool options are very strict with their set pool times. They will not allow you to go one minute over an hour. In some cases, you start getting the stink eye after 55 minutes. The second pool option is only open 8-8:50. I shoot to do the full distance but if someone stops me for even a few minutes (for whatever reason) I fall short of my goal. Oh well.....


2009-03-12 1:00 PM
in reply to: #2013575

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
For the beIronFit swims, I'd shorten or drop the warmup and/or cool down if you don't think you can get it all in. If that doesn't work, then shorten or drop one of the drill sets.
2009-03-12 1:06 PM
in reply to: #2013211

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
The shorter you're time available to be in the water, the harder you should swim. Maximize your time in the pool.

Once you get to about 1:20 IM swim, its less about form and more about fitness. It takes a lot of work to shave a couple of mins off an IM swim.
2009-03-12 1:14 PM
in reply to: #2013575

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

stchase34 - 2009-03-12 11:13 AM Yes it is the Fink program. My problem is that my only two pool options are very strict with their set pool times. They will not allow you to go one minute over an hour. In some cases, you start getting the stink eye after 55 minutes. The second pool option is only open 8-8:50. I shoot to do the full distance but if someone stops me for even a few minutes (for whatever reason) I fall short of my goal. Oh well.....

That's odd.  I've been to dozens of pools in my time and never found a pool like that.

Can you swim twice in a day to get a longer distance day in?

2009-03-12 1:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

I'd do what I could given time limits but for me being a slow swimmer I'd be in a pickle as I'd only be well under 3000 yds in the 55 or 60 minutes they give you.

Maybe find a different pool you can do a longer swim once a week or when weather warms up do longer swims outside in open water.

What I'd watch in how long you are able to swim and be sure as you get closer to your IM you are getting some swims in that are in the 3500+ range on a regular basis. For me the difference between a 3000 and 4200 yd swim was big and I needed my body to handle the swim as well as possible. 

When I started run/bike tapering I actually increased my swim frequency and distance so I was swimming last 3 weeks 5x a week. It worked great as ows take time to drive to and from lake or pond, meeting up with a friend to swim and chatting afterwards...ultimate diversion for me while tapering.

2009-03-12 3:18 PM
in reply to: #2013211

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
Around May I will be able to start getting back into the lakes and ocean at least once a week. I will make sure I plan to do my longer 1-1:30 swims during this time.
Swim season is almost over for the kids so I'm hoping they start allowing us more time.

Thanks


2009-03-12 3:37 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

The swim is my strong suit and the longest swim I had pre race was 3500 yds. And I only had maybe 4-6 of those. And I broke my collar bone 12 weeks prior and for 7 of those 12 weeks I had to swim using only one arm and kicking.

That being said, my swim goal prior to breaking my collar bone was to do the swim in around 1:10. I ended up at 1:18, but hey, with my shoulder still hurting I was happy at that point.

My point is this. Longest swim was 3500 yds, and for 7 of the 12 weeks prior to the race I really couldn't get in a thorough workout at all, and my time didn't suffer all that much.

 

YMMV

2009-03-12 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
My closest pool is 100 miles away one way.  Perhaps if you are willing to drive 10, 30, 50 miles farther once a week you could get in a longer swim at a pool in a nearby town/city/YMCA, etc.  There may be pool options you had not considered or ones that you can do if you broaden your search area.  Still ice on the ponds/lakes here, so no dice for ows yet. 
2009-03-12 4:49 PM
in reply to: #2013575

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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

stchase34 - 2009-03-12 12:13 PM Yes it is the Fink program. My problem is that my only two pool options are very strict with their set pool times. They will not allow you to go one minute over an hour. In some cases, you start getting the stink eye after 55 minutes. The second pool option is only open 8-8:50. I shoot to do the full distance but if someone stops me for even a few minutes (for whatever reason) I fall short of my goal. Oh well.....

Mirrored goggles and you can ignore 5 minutes of stink-eye   In my case, I'd just start breathing on the opposite side as the hour closes in. 

My swims are on the order of 2:00/100 and my longest planned swim is 4500 yards (BT-Intermediate) so I figure about 90 minutes.  Straight through, I can do 4200 in about 1:18-1:20

 

2009-03-13 9:51 AM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
I've got a swimming background, so I did't put as much into the swim training. My longest were 3000 meters (sometimes I swim in a meter pool) but mostly they were 3000 yards. All were less than an hour and I swam 2x a week. Our paces are similar, I did my IM swim in 1:11, by drafting on the first loop (you couldn't help but draft, its a pack moving and you are in the middle) I'd barely put in effort and then had to swim a bit more on my own the second loop.

I'd say swim til they kick you out and don't worry about the couple hundred yards you miss.
2009-03-13 3:56 PM
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2009-03-14 1:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training
I used to have this problem when i swam at my school. They had to have a life guard on duty at all times when you were in the water and those kids did not want to stay a second longer. A good option may be to find another pool i live in a medium size city and we have few options, most are private but i like the idea of being able to swim almost any time i want to. Plus the cost is not that much higher. Find other swimmers and triathletes in your area and ask them where they swim this is how i found my current pool.
2009-03-17 6:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

I'm with Akidoman, you're a strong swimmer, and you've got the technique down.  just work on the distance - which you say is not a problem.  The bottom line is that you've got to get the 2.4 miles done easily so you are fresh for the rest of the race.

I'm also a fairly stong swimmer, and that's the part of the training plan that I dropped when things got complicated.  I ended up missing quite a few of the swim workouts.  I did however get the long ones in and concentrated on swimming long rather than trying to improve my speed.    I concentrated on gliding between strokes, and resting and sighting strategies.  With your speed you'll be ahead of most of the pack anyway.

So, I'd drop the drills and just swim.

2009-03-17 7:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Talk to me about IM swim training

stchase34 - 2009-03-12 1:13 PM Yes it is the Fink program. My problem is that my only two pool options are very strict with their set pool times. They will not allow you to go one minute over an hour. In some cases, you start getting the stink eye after 55 minutes. The second pool option is only open 8-8:50. I shoot to do the full distance but if someone stops me for even a few minutes (for whatever reason) I fall short of my goal. Oh well.....

you should tell them that you are training for an IM and you are a Very Important Person !!

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