General Discussion Triathlon Talk » Help me figure out my DNF, please! Rss Feed  
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2009-03-29 9:38 PM

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Subject: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

My first ever DNF came late last season at a 1/2 IM.  Things were going as usual until about mile 40 of the bike...then disaster hit.  My quads started giving me the initial signs of cramping and aero position became very uncomfortable.  By mile 2 of the run, I couldn't even walk...the cramps had my legs locked up every step.  I waited about 30 minutes but it would not subside.  I finally had to bail.

One thing I noticed that I'd never really experienced before was that my skin was covered in salt.  My shoulders, neck, clothing...it was all chalky and white.  What's got me really freaked out is that I'm gearing up for my next 1/2 IM next weekend and on my longer ride last week I was chalky and white afterward...just like at my DNF.  Can someone tell me if this is a sign that I need more sodium on race day...and if so, what is the best way to get it?



2009-03-29 9:49 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

You were probably low on electrolytes (sodium and/or potassium). 

Was race day unusually hot or windy or were you working significantly harder in the race than what you've trained? 
Do you regularly ride mid-day or do you do most of your riding early morning and evening? 
What was your nutrition and hydration for the DNF? 

Sports drinks provide a significant amount of sodium.  If you prefer water, you can pick up salt tablets.  The challenge will be you haven't really practiced these on your training rides/runs and race day is a bad one to experiment on. 

2009-03-29 9:53 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

I'm no expert, but my initial gut reactions says that you didn't have the right fitness level.  You don't have anything in your logs so I couldn't verify if this was true or not.  Main questions:

  1. How often were your workouts?  What plan were you following?
  2. How long were your longest rides?
  3. Had you ridden over 40 miles before?
  4. What's your background with triathlons?
  5. How was your nutrition during the bike?  How many calories did you take in?
  6. Were you drinking enough?  How warm out was it?

Don't take it the wrong way, I'm just trying to get an understanding of where you currently stand.

 I get the chalky white salt stains on my long workouts, its not uncommon.  Things like shot blocks and gels have electrolytes, but you can supplement them with salt licks and endurolytes from Hammer Nutrition (that's what I use).  People debate their effectiveness, but for me they work pretty well.

2009-03-29 9:54 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
assuming you were properly trained, what did hydration in the days leading up to the race look like? race day hydration?
race conditions?



now, were you properly trained for the pace you tried to hold?
this your first half?

my guess is one of a few things happened,

you were under hydrated leading into the race so no matter what happened race day it was a bit too late (or got VERY behind on the bike, but if this happened at mile 40 i would say not race day issues as much)

you went out too hard on the bike for your fitness level, either you were not ready to bike that distance at that pace or were simply not ready at all

weather was REALLY hot.

you were not used to riding in said bike position for that long/hard

some combitnation of all of the above.

for what its worth, i would say there is no way (within normal limits) that a loss of salt would cause you to crash that quick. a mix of dehydration and over doing the bike (whether through lack of fitness, going too hard, too hard for contitions, or all), would account for that.

anymore info you can provide would help
2009-03-29 9:57 PM
in reply to: #2047788

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
just on a side note,

the salt you see is going to be much more visable the hotter/longer the workout. sweat is salty stuff, the more there is the more it shows up.

look at hte people in IM and half IM photos from hot places, its all over.

while more may have helped, i highly doubt that was the big issue.

cycling fitness more than likely is the bigger answer.
2009-03-30 8:54 AM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

The salt is from your sweat.  As the water in the sweat evaporates, it leaves behind the salt.  If you sweat a lot and enough of the water evaporates, you are left with the "chalky and white" salt residue.  It is not a sign that you need to take more salt.

If you've trained well and you pace yourself well, I'm sure you can have a more successful outing at your upcoming HIM.  Good luck!



2009-03-30 8:59 AM
in reply to: #2048244

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
JohnnyKay - 2009-03-30 9:54 AM

If you sweat a lot and enough of the water evaporates, you are left with the "chalky and white" salt residue.  It is not a sign that you need to take more salt.

Right...mostly it's a sign that you're working hard and the relative humidity is low.

Do you remember what the weather was like during your half?

2009-03-30 9:46 AM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

thank you for you responses...I've made notes and have a short but important laundry list.  I thinks it was a combination of several things brought up here. 

1) the race was late in the season (OCT) and fitness level may have tailed off.

2) It was Hot, dry and windy...I'm from Dallas so I'm used to that...however, I was racing in Austin and I'm guessing my hill training could've been better.

3) I posted great results and shorter distances last year averaging about 24-25mph at oly distance...i was trying to simulate that went out too hard/too soon.

4) My areo bottle was filled with WATER instead of sports drink so I'm guessing I was running low on elecrolytes.

I was porbably a little overconfident since my first HIM was on flat roads in super-favorable conditions...  I guess conditions are everything.  I felt great and breezed through my first HIM, but my second...wow what a difference!

I'll take it easier on the first half of the bike this weekend and then if I feel good, I'll push on the second half...

Any other suggestions?

2009-03-30 9:52 AM
in reply to: #2048418

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
i think you have answered your own issue right there, maybe a little low on fuel, but sounds lke you went out WAY to hard


for what its worth in short course stuff (given a flatter course ) i am around 25-6mph on the bike.

for the same type of course in a half, i need to sit around 22-23 if i have to have a chance of running after, with the first half being slower.

if you ran into issues at mile 40, that wouldbe under 2 hours into the bike, you prob could have finished the bike strongish witout any fuel (the run would have been another story).


strong wind is going to make everything harder becuse you try to keep the speed up and end up working much harder than you think (learned this with a power meter on a VERY windy course this past fall, like 55mph windy).

2009-03-30 9:58 AM
in reply to: #2048418

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

Nothing wrong with the water as long as you are getting nutrition from somewhere (gels, bars, etc.). 

Pacing was most likely your mistake last year (possibly aggravated by weather conditions too, though it sounds like you would have been acclimated to those).  It's almost always better to go "too easy" on the bike and make up for it on the run.  The reverse just doesn't work.  The more you push the bike, the more you risk going over the edge of your current fitness abilities.  Once you reach that point in a long course race, well...you now know what can happen. 

Hopefully you've had a chance to practice your pacing in some of your workouts and have a good idea of what kind of effort level you can maintain through the swim/bike and still run reasonably well.

2009-03-30 5:18 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
I cramped up BAD at Florida 70.3 last year, I'm positive it was going out to hard on the bike. My fluid intake was good and I had enough calories on the bike, I just got cought up in trying to crush the bike and paid for it in the first 100yrds on the run.

Every muscle in my upper legs were cramping like I have never had before, the kind just like you had. My entire 13.1 miles went like this....slow run for about 5 steps....cramp BAD....stop and stretch. I finaly gave up on running and had to walk the rest of the way. When the race was over it felt like someone ran over my legs. Lesson learned, stay within my limits!!


2009-03-30 9:14 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!

Sounds like you may have answered your own question, but the main reaisn people have trouble in races that didn't happen in training is they go too hard in the race relative to their fitness and training.

You mentioned that the course was hilly but tried to go as hard as you did in a flat race? I know that powering up hills and then running can make your quads feel all squirmy and climbing will place challenges on your lower back which might explain why being aero hurt.

Without some sort of blood test we can only speculate about your sodium levels. Sweating out salt in itself doesn't tell us anything, or what your salt levels were like going in. There is some debate right now about how much  electrolyte a person really needs in a race, and there is compelling evidence that athletes don't need as much as we think they do, although there is much anecdotal evidence on either side of the argument.

My first guess would be you went too hard on the climbs and you were fried by the run. You're going to have to think back if you were drinking enough and perhaps simply dehydrated, too, which will certainly make you feel crappy.

To answer your question about getting salt: extra salt on your food leading up to the race. Sports drink has plenty of sodium. If you want sodium without the sugar, you can get dissolving tabs such as NUUN you can also pop salt tabs. Some racers have complicated hydration methods and some seem overly simplistic.  You're going to have to figure out what works for you.

2009-03-31 5:18 PM
in reply to: #2047765

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Master
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Subject: RE: Help me figure out my DNF, please!
Main causes of cramps are muscle fatigue, overheating, dehydration, and electrolyte problems.  I'm new to tri's, but do a lot of endurance cycling (100k-110+mi rides).  Years ago I had a similar episode on a long, hot, hilly century.  Literally had my legs locked up so bad I could not unclip so I looked for a soft place (corn field) to crash my bike    Ever since- for each long event I have a plan to maintain my pace, fluids, electrolytes, and carbs.  At first twinges of cramping I back off my pace a bit, try to stretch the involved muscles (if possible), and take in some fluids & electrolytes.   I think this has really helped me avoid major cramping episodes since.  Also- some swear by chewing a Tums (calcium) to break a cramp (+/- for me). 
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