How soon to try again?

Sensei

Sin City

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

I would say a week to recover. A couple weeks to get back into it, then you can go again, IMO. So a month...

OR are you asking how long do you need to train to get better? I don't know that.

Next time try easing up on the bike a bit. When I have a bad run, it's usually because I went too hard on the bike. You probably have it in you to do much better, just need better race planning.

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Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

I'd say... enough time to figure out what went wrong so you don't repeat it? I know you mentioned hydration in your race report but also maybe race pacing? (not a coach, so i am prob. talking out of my a$$)

No idea on the timing, I'd think you need time to recover and assess what happened, and work on those issues. You certainly have the speed to do well, and this will feed your hunger for the next one.

Redemption can be powerful

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Master

1651

Breckenridge, CO

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

stateu - 2009-05-12 3:45 PM
How long should I wait until I try again?

I'd say it depends on your goals. You finished a HIM which is a great achievement. If you just want to continue to participate, once your body recovers you'll be able to do another HIM easier solely due to finishing this one.

From your logs it appears that your strength is running. If you want to be competitive at the HIM distance and be able to kill the run, IMO, you're going to have to ride A LOT more bike miles. In 2009, you're averaging 35m/week on the bike. IMO, that is not even close to what you need if you want to run well off the bike in a HIM race.

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Extreme Veteran

391

Olive Branch, MS

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

breckview - 2009-05-12 10:25 PM

stateu - 2009-05-12 3:45 PM
How long should I wait until I try again?

I'd say it depends on your goals. You finished a HIM which is a great achievement. If you just want to continue to participate, once your body recovers you'll be able to do another HIM easier solely due to finishing this one.

From your logs it appears that your strength is running. If you want to be competitive at the HIM distance and be able to kill the run, IMO, you're going to have to ride A LOT more bike miles. In 2009, you're averaging 35m/week on the bike. IMO, that is not even close to what you need if you want to run well off the bike in a HIM race.

Good advice. With the trainer time, though, the bike mileage would be a little higher. I have got to ride more, nevertheless.

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Master

1433

Calgary, AB

Silver member

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

What's a good HM time for you?

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Extreme Veteran

391

Olive Branch, MS

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

Khyron - 2009-05-13 9:34 AM

What's a good HM time for you?

Ran 1:25 in March.

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Cycling Guru

15134

Fulton, MD

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

Sounds like you could go in another month or so.

And simply take the bike portion a lot easier ....... think "Sunday cruise" instead of "Sprint hammer."

Congrats on your finish! Lesson's learned?

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Extreme Veteran

391

Olive Branch, MS

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

Daremo - 2009-05-13 9:46 AM

Sounds like you could go in another month or so.

And simply take the bike portion a lot easier ....... think "Sunday cruise" instead of "Sprint hammer."

Congrats on your finish! Lesson's learned?

True. I knew I would have tail wind first have and head wind second half, so i hammered the first half. I was fatigued the last 10m of the bike.

Lessons learned? Many.
Hydrate more in days leading up-including gatorade. Made the mistake of reading Joe Freil say no sports drink. He must not be talking to rookies.
Eat and drink more the morning of.
Don't freak over the swim.
Drink more on the bike.
I'm not as invincible as I thought.

I have also got to figure out when DNF is ok. I may have put myself in danger Saturday. I was dizzy and lightheaded a couple times and the cramping was very severe for 4 hours or so.

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Elite

4048

Gilbert, Az.

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

stateu - 2009-05-12 2:45 PM So, I began the run portion of my first HIM with a cumulative time of 3:30. I cramped, cussed, jogged, walked my way to a 7:17 finish(3:47 HM). This is going to eat at me until I better this performance. How long should I wait until I try again?

Hrm. Unless your logs aren't always up to date, your training doesn't look quite consistent. You did nearly half your yearly mileage on the bike in April, and you also did basically 3 sprint triathlons in the 5 days before the race. Additionally, you only had one ride that was substantially more than an hour.

I think the big culprit is your bike training. You have a really good training pace, and your normal running is pretty sweet as well, I think with a little more consistency in your training and a better approach to the taper week(s) you could really kick some tail at that distance.

John

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Extreme Veteran

391

Olive Branch, MS

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

tkd.teacher - 2009-05-13 10:08 AM

stateu - 2009-05-12 2:45 PM So, I began the run portion of my first HIM with a cumulative time of 3:30. I cramped, cussed, jogged, walked my way to a 7:17 finish(3:47 HM). This is going to eat at me until I better this performance. How long should I wait until I try again?

Hrm. Unless your logs aren't always up to date, your training doesn't look quite consistent. You did nearly half your yearly mileage on the bike in April, and you also did basically 3 sprint triathlons in the 5 days before the race. Additionally, you only had one ride that was substantially more than an hour.

I think the big culprit is your bike training. You have a really good training pace, and your normal running is pretty sweet as well, I think with a little more consistency in your training and a better approach to the taper week(s) you could really kick some tail at that distance.

John

Nah. I had 3 or 4 rides over 45 miles.
I don't log bike trainer time as mileage, but instead as a separate discipline as should be evident.
Also, my 2008 numbers are only from June-Dec.
I followed the free HIM plan here- http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... almost to the letter.

Edited by stateu 2009-05-13 10:22 AM

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Elite

4048

Gilbert, Az.

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

stateu - 2009-05-13 8:21 AM

tkd.teacher - 2009-05-13 10:08 AM

stateu - 2009-05-12 2:45 PM So, I began the run portion of my first HIM with a cumulative time of 3:30. I cramped, cussed, jogged, walked my way to a 7:17 finish(3:47 HM). This is going to eat at me until I better this performance. How long should I wait until I try again?

Hrm. Unless your logs aren't always up to date, your training doesn't look quite consistent. You did nearly half your yearly mileage on the bike in April, and you also did basically 3 sprint triathlons in the 5 days before the race. Additionally, you only had one ride that was substantially more than an hour.

I think the big culprit is your bike training. You have a really good training pace, and your normal running is pretty sweet as well, I think with a little more consistency in your training and a better approach to the taper week(s) you could really kick some tail at that distance.

John

Nah. I had 3 or 4 rides over 45 miles. I don't log bike trainer time as mileage, but instead as a separate discipline as should be evident. Also, my 2008 numbers are only from June-Dec. I followed the free HIM plan here- http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... almost to the letter.

Didn't look at 2008, just this years totals. If you were logging trainer time as "other" then the mileage differences make sense.

I still hate your taper week. :D Even though the second two "tri" days were short, I still don't like 3 days of triples in the last 5 days before a workout, but that's me.

Just finished reading your RR, I'll add hydration and nutrition into the mix as well. No aid stations on the bike to replace what you lost? (That does suck, I've lost bottles in road races, and it really ends up hurting you down the line)

John

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Master

1651

Breckenridge, CO

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

stateu - 2009-05-13 8:53 AM

..Joe Freil say no sports drink.

I think that's terrible advice.

I'm not as invincible as I thought.

Same here. I couldn't believe how much harder my first HIM was than I thought it would be. I too was cramping badly on the run. The amount of recovery I required afterwards was shocking to me as well.

Sorry about messing up your bike mileage... I personally include my trainer time as miles ridden at a flat 20 mph so that I have a good idea of where I am in my bike fitness progress.

Your 2009 ave mph is about 19 so if you added your trainer time to miles like I do you've ridden 57 miles per week in 2009 which is much better. I still think though that as a strong runner, if you want to be competitive, if you could ramp up your bike to near 100 mpw, you'd be able to excel on the run and post a great HIM time.

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Extreme Veteran

391

Olive Branch, MS

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

breckview - 2009-05-13 10:39 AM

stateu - 2009-05-13 8:53 AM

..Joe Freil say no sports drink.

I think that's terrible advice.

I'm not as invincible as I thought.

Same here. I couldn't believe how much harder my first HIM was than I thought it would be. I too was cramping badly on the run. The amount of recovery I required afterwards was shocking to me as well.

Sorry about messing up your bike mileage... I personally include my trainer time as miles ridden at a flat 20 mph so that I have a good idea of where I am in my bike fitness progress.

Your 2009 ave mph is about 19 so if you added your trainer time to miles like I do you've ridden 57 miles per week in 2009 which is much better. I still think though that as a strong runner, if you want to be competitive, if you could ramp up your bike to near 100 mpw, you'd be able to excel on the run and post a great HIM time.

Makes perfect sense.

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Not a Coach

11473

Media, PA

Subject: RE: How soon to try again?

stateu - 2009-05-13 10:53 AM
True. I knew I would have tail wind first have and head wind second half, so i hammered the first half. I was fatigued the last 10m of the bike.

Obviously, you need to work on the hydration/nutrition plan. But this approach to the bike is completely backwards from optimal. You should be working RELATIVELY easier with a tail wind and RELATIVELY harder into the headwind. You don't 'hammer' with the tail wind to offset the slower speeds you will inevitably see into the wind. You probably needed to do the whole ride at an easier effort level, but this was a particular 'tactical' error. that you made and probably made things worse.

As to when to try again, I would say at least a month but probably better if you can wait a bit longer. Recover for at least the next 2 weeks and then get back into training mode for a month or two before having to taper again. Maybe find a shorter race in the meantime to 'shake off' this one.

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How soon to try again?

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