General Discussion Triathlon Talk » swimming endurance..how? Rss Feed  
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2005-04-20 3:20 PM

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Subject: swimming endurance..how?
Ok ..I am having problems with my endurance in swimming.  I can do 50 freestyle, 50 breast alternating and can make 1500 meters.. However if I try to do 100 freestyle I feel like I am dying. I did 100 free today in 1:43 and i felt like I had run a sprint.   How should I build endurance?  I am working on my form but need the to know whether the alternating 50 free, 50 breast is helping or hindering me.. Should I just go to the pool and try to do sets of 100 instead with rest in between?  and then work to sets of 150..and on up?  Looking for suggestions.  Thanks.


2005-04-20 3:37 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
macaco - 2005-04-20 2:20 PM

Ok ..I am having problems with my endurance in swimming. How should I build endurance?


For me it is a mental thing. When I worry about time, I often swim too fast and tire fast.

When I take time and slow down to think about what I am doing, I usually swim better and longer.

Also, it is a mental thing, because even when I think I can't do another lap, I try to keep going. If I only did what was easy to do, I would never build endurance (not that I have much now). (BTW, I am not saying that you are a quitter or weak. It is just my tendency to do what is necessary in training and not push myself. Especially in the pool.)
2005-04-20 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
I'd point out that a 1:43 100 yd swim is pretty darn fast for a beginner. Slowing down will likely be the first thing you need to do.

I posted a similar thread recently and had a lot of comments from people who struggled with endurance until they stopped kicking so much. I've tried to focus on this the past couple of weeks and have been able to go from struggling to swim more than 25 yds without stopping, to swimming 100 yds without stopping fairly comfortably. Now, 100 yds is hardly where I want to be but in just two weeks I've quadrupled my comfortable distance by stopping all the leg thrashing I was doing.

I don't know if the kicking might be an issue for you but your split time definitely makes me think you are swimming way too fast to hold up over a long distance.
2005-04-20 4:01 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?

The best way to improve swimming endurance is the same way we improve at biking or running ... by stretching our limits a little a time and allowing for recovery. After a warmup, try this: swim 50 yards, rest 20 seconds, do it again. Do this 10 times for 500 yards, then repeat twice more, taking a minute or two to recover between the 500s. You should be able to do each 50 in a minute or less, based on your post. That's fine. What you don't want to do is swim the last set of 50s slower than the first. Find a pace you can stick with. Finish with 2 x 100s on 30 second recoveries. Do a cooldown. All of these sets might feel very hard. You might be breathing hard. Keep pushing. Your body will remember this workout and will adapt to an even tougher workout next time. Gradually, if you're consistent, instead of 50s you'll be doing this workout with 100s and with less recovery time. And before people get all worked up over drills, form and technique being more important etc., I'm going to assume you're OK in that area. I'm talking strictly about endurance improvement, which is what you asked about. Good luck.

2005-04-20 4:11 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?

Hey Mac,

I used to always alternate free/back/free/breast.  I pushed harder on the free laps and rested on the back and breast.  Now I have figured out how to slow the free down and can go free for a solid hour if I want to.  I am not sure which way is a better workout.  I am nowhere near as fast as you.  I average about 2:10 per 100 yards.

Swimming a long way is all about efficiency so I think the conventional wisdom among the good swimmers around here is that you should not practice inefficient form.  So if your stroke count per lap increases, you should take a breather or swim a lap of breast stroke.  

If your stroke needs some work (at 1:43/100 you are pretty good already) there are lots of drills to help with body position to reduce drag, to make breathing easier, or to get more distance out of each stroke.  The best thing for stroke work is to get a coach.  Most swimming competitions are sprint events so most coaches emphasize a sprinter's stroke.  You may need to shop around for someone who knows that you are looking for efficiency rather than raw speed.

Your problem is more likely just the physical adaptations for endurance in the upper body are not there yet.  Most of us, even former swimmers,  have never done endurance swimming.  Your muscles have to adapt to work continuously rather than perform an anaerobic work/rest cycle. 

Good luck.  As someone who formerly just ran, I am so glad that now when I see the temperature up in the 80's I can decide to go swim for an hour instead.

TW 

2005-04-20 4:30 PM
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Subject: stroke count and kick turns.

Thanks for the advice so far...another question I have..which is kind of stupid but...when people are talking about stroke count, are you counting from a standing start at the wall or do you incorporate your kick turns.  Obviously the stroke count will be less if the kick turns are included...and I assume that everyone is doing a kick turn  and that is how they averaging 1:30 to 1:40 100's consistently.   My 100 today in 1:43 was not an all out sprint for me but close...when I do the 50 free/50 breast alternating...I am about 1:10 for the 50 frees and 1:35 for the breast...



2005-04-20 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: stroke count and kick turns.
macaco - 2005-04-20 3:30 PM

Thanks for the advice so far...another question I have..which is kind of stupid but...when people are talking about stroke count, are you counting from a standing start at the wall or do you incorporate your kick turns.  Obviously the stroke count will be less if the kick turns are included...and I assume that everyone is doing a kick turn  and that is how they averaging 1:30 to 1:40 100's consistently.   My 100 today in 1:43 was not an all out sprint for me but close...when I do the 50 free/50 breast alternating...I am about 1:10 for the 50 frees and 1:35 for the breast...

oops, blank...please see below.



Edited by katieyows 2005-04-20 4:36 PM
2005-04-20 4:35 PM
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Subject: RE: stroke count and kick turns.
katieyows - 2005-04-20 3:31 PM
macaco - 2005-04-20 3:30 PM

Thanks for the advice so far...another question I have..which is kind of stupid but...when people are talking about stroke count, are you counting from a standing start at the wall or do you incorporate your kick turns.  Obviously the stroke count will be less if the kick turns are included...and I assume that everyone is doing a kick turn  and that is how they averaging 1:30 to 1:40 100's consistently.   My 100 today in 1:43 was not an all out sprint for me but close...when I do the 50 free/50 breast alternating...I am about 1:10 for the 50 frees and 1:35 for the breast...

Unless the swims in your races are in a pool, and you will be able to do flip turns during the race, to me, it seems silly to record your times including flip turns.  In open water there are no walls to push off to get that extra "uummph."  Seems that by practicing flip turns one would be falsly teaching your body that you will get an explosion of propulsion every 25 or 50 yards.

Just my $.02. 

2005-04-20 4:51 PM
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Subject: RE: stroke count and kick turns.
katieyows - 2005-04-20 4:35 PM

Unless the swims in your races are in a pool, and you will be able to do flip turns during the race, to me, it seems silly to record your times including flip turns. In open water there are no walls to push off to get that extra "uummph." Seems that by practicing flip turns one would be falsly teaching your body that you will get an explosion of propulsion every 25 or 50 yards.

Just my $.02.



I use my flip turns to help with breath control. Open turns, even with a light push-off, allow me to take an extra breath. If you're overswimming your target distance, the turns won't add up to anything significant, they help with breath control, and they add some variety to the lap-swimming monotony!
2005-04-20 5:05 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?

Mac,

For comparison purposes, the conventional stroke count is push off the wall, right arm 1, left arm 2, right arm 3, repeat until you touch the far wall.   If you do a flip turn as opposed to a wall turn where you actually grab the wall with your hand, you save about a stroke.  

The good swimmers do flip turns to show off although some claim that not getting a big breath at the wall simulates open water better and thats why they do it.   I do flip turns until I get tired then switch to wall turns or until I miss the wall with my feet whichever comes first.

TW 

2005-04-20 5:10 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?

Scott - SLOW DOWN!  I fought the same thing all of last year, and I finally 'got it' this year.  Funny thing: once I mentally slowed down, my times started getting faster.  Last night I did 15 repeats of 100yd freestyle - my first 3 repeats were on the 2:00 mark, where the final ones were closer to 1:50 (there were one or two 1:45s in there too.)



2005-04-20 9:02 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Relax, slow down, count how many strokes it takes you to reach the other side (one count per arm). 1:43 is fast. I am averaging somewhere around 2:20 per hundred meters and the other day I swam 1500 meters nonstop in 35 minutes. That was the first time that I had done that, but the reason that it got done was because I swam slow and relaxed.

To get to that point, I forced myself to continue even when my body was tired. I started off doing 50, then rest, another 50 then rest...etc. Then I forced myself to keep going for 100 and then rest. Once that got easier, then I forced myself to make my rests shorter...no more than 20 seconds, then drop it down to 15 seconds, then 10 seconds, and eventually, I forced myself to continue and do a 200 nonstop, and kept working on it....300....400....500...etc....

Split up your workouts throughout the week. Have a day where you work on endurance, forcing yourself to continue with short rests between each hundred, and when that gets easier throw in a couple 200's and build it up. Have a day during the week where you work on speed...where you go as fast as you can go for 25 or 50 and give your self a short break and do it again.

Have fun.

Jerry
2005-04-20 9:12 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Just put in the time and put in the laps....there is no other way to go about it
2005-04-20 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Yup, I agree. SLOW DOWN ALOT! don't worry about speed (don't time yourself). work on long, strong strokes, where you stretch out your arm before you pull. Pull buoys are awsome for developing endurance because you can't go fast, so you have to focus on your strokes and breathing. I try to do four strokes, then breathe (left, right, left right, breathe on the left). also, if you kick alot this will make you tired. You really need to kick very little, most of your power should come from your strokes. hope this helps. i should note that i haven't had any coaching in about ten years, so if your coach says different then follow their advice. this stuff just works for me.
2005-04-20 10:29 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?

Macao,

I thiink it's your avatar that's slowing you down!

Seriously, echo - slow down brother. What good is it to swim a 1:43 100 when you have to swim 1500 in the race? Better to swim a 1:50 1500 consistently.  Stroke count is good. At the beginning it's almost better to count your strokes than your time because your stroke count will tell you how elongated your stroke is and see how good your form is.

Best way to get used to swimming fast consistently is to do intervals. Basically swim 50s or 100 with rest in between for long sets. You should do one long swim a week, but the rest of the week should be drills and intervals. Depending on your race length your interval length will be long or short. If you're doing a sprint then intervals will be of 100s, 200s, or 300s until your total sprint length is done. Olys maybe 400s, 500s, 600s, 1/2 IM 600s, 750s, and long sets added to the early drills of 1000s, 1500s, etc.

Concentrate on form and intervals and you will get faster.

2005-04-20 11:26 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Hmm, and 12 minutes later you brought us up to date on the six women's telephone numbers you've acquired at the pool, even though you are married, and some of them are as well. Just a hunch, but maybe you should spend less time making time, and more time swimming laps?!


2005-04-21 1:15 AM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
SLow down, and make sure you're not kicking too hard. Do 100 repeats. Take as much time inbetween as you need at first, make sure you're fully recovered. soon you'll find that a minute feels like a long recovery, then 45 seconds, then 30 seconds. When you string them together, again, slow down a little.

I get this sensation when I swim longer distances of my arms fatiguing and starting to get winded. When I continue swimming throught his point, concentrating on maintaining good form, that feeling jus tstays steady, it doesn't get any worse. It's mostly mental for me at that point, how distracted I am, how much time I have, what my goals are, etc. When I finish a 500, a 1000 or a 1500, I'm just as tired at the end of it.
2005-04-21 9:20 AM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
I found that the most useful workout for me in building endurance was to swim ladders. I started swimming just outside of my comfort range (100, 200, 300, 200, 100) and in no time I was finding that I could easily tackle distances as a continuous swim that were unthinkable (1500m). If you are having trouble swimming 100m continuously, try a ladder like this:

50, 100, 150, 100, 50 or 50, 100, 150, 150, 100, 50

If you can do those at a conservative pace (like others have suggested - slow down!) then you will find that you can start adding to them.

Good luck,

Shane
2005-04-21 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Thanks for the input - Everything stated makes sense - especially the intervals.  However, everyone's advice kind of makes me want to skip the coaching session tonite since the coach really wants us to kick a lot..and it seems to be against all of the advice that I have gotten here. 
2005-04-21 12:22 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
Your coach might be the problem if he is a swim specifi coach.  Did you let him/her know that you are training for a triathlon.  There are a few interesting swim articles at the following site:     http://www.trinewbies.com/category.asp?catID=4
2005-04-21 12:53 PM
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Subject: RE: swimming endurance..how?
TEll your coach that the tongue is the strongest muscle in the body for it's size (or so I've heard) ...ask him how he want's you to use that while swimming.


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